Auction rules - do these seem odd to you?
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=179142
Printed Date: 22 Aug 2025 at 2:49pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Auction rules - do these seem odd to you?
Posted By: KMAG
Subject: Auction rules - do these seem odd to you?
Date Posted: 18 Mar 2021 at 9:11am
|
I was watching an auction with some interest, so I looked up its rules. These are portions of them: A.This Auction has a 15% Buyers Premium. - OUCH!!!! But, no credit card user fee. I can figure the 15% into my bid. K. Reserves. Unless the sale is advertised and announced as a sale without reserves, each lot may be offered subject to reserve. Auction Company may implement such reserves by bidding through its representatives on behalf of the Owner. L. Bidding. Auction Company reserves the right to reject a bid from any bidder. The auctioneer has the right to split any bidding increment and to advance the bidding in any manner as the auctioneer may decide. The highest bidder acknowledged by the auctioneer shall be the buyer. In the event of any dispute between bidders, the auctioneer shall have sole and final discretion either to determine the successful bidder or to re-offer and resell the article in dispute. M. Auctioneer's Discretion. If the auctioneer determines that any opening bid is not commensurate with the value of the article offered, he may reject the same and withdraw the article from the sale. If having accepted an opening bid, the auctioneer decides that any advance thereafter is not of sufficient amount, he may reject the advance. https://pennsylvania.hibid.com/lot/86156909/allis-chalmers-c-narrow-front-end-tractor/?q=&zip=17022&miles=50&ref=lot-list" rel="nofollow - https://pennsylvania.hibid.com/lot/86156909/allis-chalmers-c-narrow-front-end-tractor/?q=&zip=17022&miles=50&ref=lot-list In summary, there is 15% buyer fee plus auctioneer can bid against me, ignore my bid, or cancel the item up for sale for items not specifically listed "w/o a reserve" if he thinks something is selling under value. Is this unusual or plainly saying what was done behind the scenes for years? It dashes hope of getting a great deal after finding what I want and taking the time/expense to attend an auction. |
Replies:
Posted By: KenBWisc
Date Posted: 18 Mar 2021 at 9:28am
|
Seems to eliminate the old claim that auctions are the “true” determination of an item’s value. ------------- '34 WC #629, '49 G, '49 B, '49 WD, '62 D-19, '38 All Crop 60 and still hunting! |
Posted By: Alberta Phil
Date Posted: 18 Mar 2021 at 9:36am
|
That would be an auction I would stay away from! |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 18 Mar 2021 at 9:39am
Why dont they just post the PRICE and see if anyone is interestsd ?  ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: Fred in Pa
Date Posted: 18 Mar 2021 at 9:54am
|
Did anyone ever see a Auction go just as announced !!!!!! or in writing . ------------- He who dies with the most toys is, nonetheless ,still dead. If all else fails ,Read all that is PRINTED. |
Posted By: ac45dave
Date Posted: 18 Mar 2021 at 10:27am
------------- 54 wd-45gas ; 56 wd-45d N/F w/fact p/s ; 63 d-17 sIII N/F gas ; 60 D14 N/F ; 67 d-17 sIV N/F gas ; 63D15 sII W/F; 39rc#667 ; 2021 massey 4710 fwa ; gravely 2 wheel tractors |
Fred in Pa wrote:Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 18 Mar 2021 at 10:53am
|
Bryan's Farm Auctions says they LIMIT your CC purchases to 15K, which according to MC and VISA is against 'vendor' rules..... So if I buy a 20K item, I CAN pay for it with my VISA( as long as I haven't maxxed out). ALSo it's against all CC rules to have a 'preminum' added for USING any CC... If 'they' post a fee for using a CC, take picture and report them, I KNOW VISA will contact the vendor and give them 2 options #1..let the transaction go through, #2 no longer be a VISA approved vendor. well up here in Canada, eh ! ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: Kansas99
Date Posted: 18 Mar 2021 at 12:52pm
|
I was watching an auction with some interest, so I looked up its rules. These are portions of them: A.This Auction has a 15% Buyers Premium. - OUCH!!!! But, no credit card user fee. I can figure the 15% into my bid. K. Reserves. Unless the sale is advertised and announced as a sale without reserves, each lot may be offered subject to reserve. Auction Company may implement such reserves by bidding through its representatives on behalf of the Owner. L. Bidding. Auction Company reserves the right to reject a bid from any bidder. The auctioneer has the right to split any bidding increment and to advance the bidding in any manner as the auctioneer may decide. The highest bidder acknowledged by the auctioneer shall be the buyer. In the event of any dispute between bidders, the auctioneer shall have sole and final discretion either to determine the successful bidder or to re-offer and resell the article in dispute. M. Auctioneer's Discretion. If the auctioneer determines that any opening bid is not commensurate with the value of the article offered, he may reject the same and withdraw the article from the sale. If having accepted an opening bid, the auctioneer decides that any advance thereafter is not of sufficient amount, he may reject the advance. https://pennsylvania.hibid.com/lot/86156909/allis-chalmers-c-narrow-front-end-tractor/?q=&zip=17022&miles=50&ref=lot-list" rel="nofollow - https://pennsylvania.hibid.com/lot/86156909/allis-chalmers-c-narrow-front-end-tractor/?q=&zip=17022&miles=50&ref=lot-list In summary, there is 15% buyer fee plus auctioneer can bid against me, ignore my bid, or cancel the item up for sale for items not specifically listed "w/o a reserve" if he thinks something is selling under value. Is this unusual or plainly saying what was done behind the scenes for years? It dashes hope of getting a great deal after finding what I want and taking the time/expense to attend an auction. I don't think it's as bad as it reads, just all the mumble jumble makes it sound out of the ordinary and a person could draw the conclusion that you did but in a since all auctions are like you described to a point. The way I read it is: A. Yep the Buyers Premium is the new hustle, not uncommon about 1/2 the web auctions are trying to do it. K. Stating they will run you up if they think they can get you to bid more. Nothing uncommon about that, around here the auctioneers have pulled bids out of the air for years, if they get caught short they own it. They're just coming right out and saying they'll do it via a employee. Someone might call them and say I will give $400 for item x, they're saying they will buy it or make it bring at least x. The only time I didn't see a auctioneer do that was years back I called a auction in McPherson that had a 87 Chevy restored like I had years ago and said I would like to bid on it and she said show up or we won't take your bid. That surprised me. I couldn't make it  L. Again auctioneers always set the bid increment if they are calling for 700 on a 600 bid and you signal 650 he can say nope 700 is what its going to take. If there's a dispute and two people both think they had the bid, then they open it back up were the auctioneer said he left off, this is very common, or if someone who he knows wasn't bidding says "I had the bid" he simply says nope sold to gentlemen over here. As far as the first part to reject a bid it would be same as above or if someone is there that didn't register or get cleared to bid then he can reject them. M. Auctioneer always sets the amount of the opening bid it's just a matter if he is willing to go to a penny when he knows the item is worth $20,000. There just saying they will pull it if nobody bids so if they don't get say $50 bid on your C they will just pull it and return it to the owner. Him determining the advance after that is how it is always done same as L. The only thing they doing is covering from having to say moneys on and buy the equipment themselves, they're just saying they'll give it back to the owner. "It dashes hope of getting a great deal after finding what I want and taking the time/expense to attend an auction." You may well still get a good deal, after all the only good deals at auctions are only if there's a honest auctioneer or the auctioneer decides to give you a good deal. I wouldn't be afraid to show up and bid on something that you want. You might regret it later. You still might come home with a bargain or if the auctioneer thinks that C is a 220 FWA you'll just come home without. Best is make sure they're cooking something good for dinner at least you can come home on a full stomach.  ------------- "Thank you for your service Joe & the Ho"-----Joseph Stalin |
Posted By: Fred in Pa
Date Posted: 18 Mar 2021 at 1:54pm
|
Wants anyone's idea of how you what a Auctioneer to do your Sale that it dose not cost u as much . ------------- He who dies with the most toys is, nonetheless ,still dead. If all else fails ,Read all that is PRINTED. |
Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 18 Mar 2021 at 2:00pm
|
Son has been doing a lot of online auctions and has ended up with the auctioneer as a preferred customer in making bids or in ability to pick up items . He was bidding on 4 vertical mills and someone run the price up on one yet left the other 3 stand where his bid was - he ended up bidding the 1 one up before letting the other bidders fight it out , ended up buying the 3 - then had someone contact him offering twice what he paid for it - said meet me at pickup point the next morning with CASH and I will have it loaded onto your truck OR it drops onto my trailer and if you want it will cost you $500 more - Auctioneer laughed about it later when son had rigger load out the machines and son directed rigger to drop the one unit onto another trailer . ------------- Life lesson: If you’re being chased by a lion, you’re on a horse, to the left of you is a giraffe and on the right is a unicorn, what do you do? You stop drinking and get off the carousel. |
Posted By: tomNE
Date Posted: 18 Mar 2021 at 7:50pm
|
that sounds like the Manheim dealer auto auctions rules, that we go by everyday. Plus a few unwritten ones! We had to learn to live with the rules or have no place to buy cars! ------------- AC from the start of my families farming career till the end! |
Posted By: PeteMN
Date Posted: 18 Mar 2021 at 8:04pm
| Pretty soon there won't be anybody left who'll even go to an auction...maybe I'll be able to park closer than half a mile away when that happens. Judging by the crowds of new pickups at farm auctions, there must still be some good deals even with all the auctioneer rules and buyers premiums. |
Posted By: Kansas99
Date Posted: 18 Mar 2021 at 8:50pm
|
------------- "Thank you for your service Joe & the Ho"-----Joseph Stalin |
Posted By: JW in MO
Date Posted: 19 Mar 2021 at 6:30am
|
Auctions have always been like this with the exception of the buyers premium, you just never knew it unless you were real observant or privey to all info. I’ve observed auctioneers take bids out of lamps to reach a predetermined minimum and use an assigned bid number if it didn’t. Talking in a group one evening one guy said that a good auction only need two bidders and an auctioneer in the group said,No, it just takes one bidder and a damn good auctioneer! ------------- Maximum use of available resources! |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 19 Mar 2021 at 6:49am
| It'll still set the value of items. If this all is "bad enough", fewer people show, fewer people bid, the smart get smarter on the premiums, etc. The market should shake through all this in time anyway. |
Posted By: allisbred
Date Posted: 19 Mar 2021 at 7:24am
| That’s why you need to read prior to a bid. Looks normal to me for both buyer & seller for around here. |
Posted By: Fred in Pa
Date Posted: 19 Mar 2021 at 9:55am
This post just goes to show the FIRE PRINT that is never read. Then wonder later what the %^%^& just happen . ------------- He who dies with the most toys is, nonetheless ,still dead. If all else fails ,Read all that is PRINTED. |
Posted By: Ray54
Date Posted: 19 Mar 2021 at 12:27pm
That FIRE PRINT is that just your true feeling about auctioneers coming out.The only bargains I ever got at a auction was old rusted out junk, that just happened to have John Blue ground drive piston pumps that where repairable. Even though the local auctioneer was as crooked as dogs hind leg, and used every trick to ever come along still had fun going. Laughing at citydots paying over new price for fencing materials. Watching him pull bids out of the air when there was only a handful of people present. Then having the buyer ask me was I the only one bidding.
|
Posted By: DanWi
Date Posted: 19 Mar 2021 at 5:40pm
| If you think you are bidding against the auctioneer stop bidding and see how he begs you to bid one more time. |
Posted By: Gary Burnett
Date Posted: 19 Mar 2021 at 6:03pm
|
Bottom line no one can make me bid more money for something than I want to,I don't care who else is bidding.Auctions are more popular than ever around here as far as I can see.I've gotten some real bargains at auctions over the years,like my 98 HP Long/Landini tractor that runs and operates good for $900.
|
Posted By: shameless dude
Date Posted: 19 Mar 2021 at 11:49pm
| any auctioneer works for the person(s)/companies they are selling for. the buyers premium started with them selling for Govt agencies as they didn't want to pay the auctioneers, so they started to add their fee onto the buyers bids. some bidders don't mind that, most do! if i go to one of them, the winning bid has to be really low! some sellers want the buyers premium sale so they don't hafta fork out the auctioneers fees. however they are not figuring out that those type sales don't bring in as much as an out right auction. then the seller gits po'ed because something they are trying to sell doesn't bring as much as they think it should. sellers trying to to get away with being a tightwad. (wow...all of a sudden Joe's name popped into my head LMAO). every auctioneer is different and can hold different type auctions. i've seen all of them mentioned above. anyway...still all boils down to buyer beware! auctions are for fast money for the sellers. i've seen alot of disputes from bidders, they have to be sure that the auctioneer see's his/her bids, not with just a blink of their eyes or the wiggle of their ears! like about any other business...there are tricks of the trade, ya'll just hafta learn to recognise them and bid accordingly. |
Posted By: Tom59
Date Posted: 20 Mar 2021 at 8:02am
| My thoughts on going to an auction is bid what you want to spend. Over the years on a average I got some really good deals at auctions. I also found us stuff that I was looking for at auctions. The majority of my equipment have come from auctions. You just got to use your head and not let your emotions overcome you. |
Posted By: Dusty MI
Date Posted: 20 Mar 2021 at 8:49am
|
I will not buy at an auction where there is a buyers premium added. I went to an Auction Sale once and after I got there found that a buyers premium was being added, so I left. If everyone would that the buyers premium would disappeared. Dusty ------------- 917 H, '48 G, '65 D-10 series III "Allis Express" |
Posted By: Gary Burnett
Date Posted: 20 Mar 2021 at 10:25pm
I like buyers premiums for just the reason you mentioned.Weeds out the competition(LOL)
|
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 20 Mar 2021 at 10:28pm
|
just BID 15% LESS ? ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 21 Mar 2021 at 6:35am
|
probably kinda hard to figure out in the 'heat of the battle' ? quick ,what's 15% less than $500 ? sorry, 2 other guys already bidded on it, you lost, next item up is..... what might work though is to figure it out BEFORE, the item comes up, as to YOUR top bid say $500 for that tractor.15% of 500 is 75 ( @ 15%, $15 per $100, 5 *15),so $425 would be YOUR max.. what 'upsets' me is that Bryan's deletes the bidding numbers as sonn as that item is 'sold' so I have no way of KNOWING if the tractor sold for 10K or 100 ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: Tom59
Date Posted: 21 Mar 2021 at 7:38am
| I don’t attend buyer’s premium auctions, but in fairness most auction companies in my area that I go to their auctions don’t do buyer’s premiums. |
Posted By: Clay
Date Posted: 21 Mar 2021 at 9:32am
| Sales tax is another problem at some auctions |
Posted By: KMAG
Date Posted: 21 Mar 2021 at 10:52am
| I was at an auction with a 10% buyer premium, plus extra 5% fee for using credit card. I paid cash - no buyers fee was charged. I'm not complaining:) |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 21 Mar 2021 at 10:55am
|
It's illegal up here in Ontario for a vendor to charge a 'user fee' for using either VISA or MC. ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: Fantrum
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2021 at 1:17am
Actually, jaybmiller, if your $425 bid is your max for $500 total, then my $434.78 bid for $500 total just won against your $500 total bid..  Yay! I got the tractor!While your rough math is close enough to be effective, we should really divide your max bid by 1.15, rather than multiply it by 0.85. Sorry, just had to.
 Not that it truly matters. |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2021 at 5:24am
|
that's OK, wife don't want me to get anymore tractors..... too much 'math'...I went 'old skool'. I know 15% of 100 bucks is 15, so 5x15=75, 75 crom 500 is 4 and a quarter. yeah, it's a 'cheat' but easy math on my brain these days.... Jay ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: Fantrum
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2021 at 10:42pm
| Lol, neither does mine... But... She has a horse. Isn't there an unwritten rule somewhere about 4 tractors per horse? |