Allis chalmers 1969 HD4 crawler loader help
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Construction and other equipment
Forum Description: everything else with orange (or yellow) paint
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=177262
Printed Date: 20 Aug 2025 at 10:22pm
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Topic: Allis chalmers 1969 HD4 crawler loader help
Posted By: Lazy
Subject: Allis chalmers 1969 HD4 crawler loader help
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2021 at 7:51am
Hello and just want to say thank you ahead of time for any help or info provided. I just bought a 1969 a/c HD4. That being said I fix Subaru’s for a living and am new to heavy equipment.when first got machine went forward and reverse fine but would only turn with break depressed, so figured stuck clutches. After moving it around property started to veer right with out brake or steering clutch depressed. R/H track rotated freely when moving and locked when brake depressed. My fear it that it is more than a damaged clutch pack. I was able to see that the release bearing on right side is not contacting the pressure plate and is actually kinda far away from it. Was able to get some pictures through plug from bottom. I’ve done a lot of reading and my head is kinda swimming with Info for the last 2 weeks since I got this thing. I am afraid of a broken shaft from trans to clutch or some version of that. I live in Illinois and keep it in Missouri so do not have instant access to machine. Also to add to that this is my first forum. 
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Replies:
Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2021 at 11:16am
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H4 turns when you pull the hand clutch FIRST and use brake 2nd It is not a hydraulic applied clutch like the 653 / 655 there is a adjustment for both brake application and for the clutch throw . VEER right or walk right slowly - big difference as machines seldom move in a straight line for long distances . Fwd/Rev is controlled by lever on left side on tank which sends hydraulics to clutch pack to control neutral and or Fwd / Rev direction. As it uses a hydraulic torque converter and a forward and reverse shuttle clutch to drive a 3 speed transmission - the power then is routed through the ring and pinion to a stub axle that indexes into drive plate in steering clutch unit - which is also the brake bend hub with band around outside . Clutch can be a multi disc or single disc with auburn pressure plate This feeds through it's hub to a single reduction spur and bull gear - bull gear is supported by 2 timken bearing on axle shaft - known point of wear is outboard axle bearing which will move and eat into case requiring removal of case and machining the case for new bearing housing . Access to steering clutch area is through plate which is under the side fuel and hydraulic tanks . ------------- Life lesson: If you’re being chased by a lion, you’re on a horse, to the left of you is a giraffe and on the right is a unicorn, what do you do? You stop drinking and get off the carousel. |
Posted By: DonBC
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2021 at 12:43pm
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I think that the quickest way to cause serious damage to any crawler dozer or loader is to operate one without proper knowledge as to how they work. ------------- Jack of all trades, master of none |
Posted By: Lazy
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2021 at 1:56pm
| Thank you very much coke for the reply, I have read may of your reply’s to question and it’s staggering the amount information you have. Again I apologize ahead of time if it seems like I do not understand some of how power flow happens. I do feel like I have a light grasp of shuttle clutch,steering clutch and brake operation but do not think after a few weeks of looking at owner’s/parts/service manuals that I can say ya I understand this machine. When going forward machine will very quickly turn right with no operation of brakes or steering clutches. I would say it is almost doing donuts. Assuming I wanted to turn left I would pull left steering clutch handle and apply brake but the machine just stops then. At this time I would say it cannot turn left. Also not sure if can remove steering clutch with removing tracks or can it be done with track left on ? |
Posted By: NomoreJohnDeere
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2021 at 2:41pm
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Are both sides getting power? ------------- HD3 |
Posted By: Lazy
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2021 at 3:41pm
| I think the only side getting power is L/H. That being said I’m trying to figure out how I can maybe see if there is power going to R/H steering clutch. Do not want to start tearing down to do steering clutches not know what real problem is. Am wondering will I be able to run machine with hydraulic tank off If that isn’t stupid idea so I can see what is actually happening when forward shuttle applied. Was thinking if I remove seat might be able to see what’s going on in there thru brake adjustment hole that I think I see in the manual. Would I be wrong to think that I will see the shuttle clutch drum rotate when forward clutch applied? I thought if I could tell if power is being sent to steering clutch then I could narrow down what side the failure is on transmission side or steering clutch side if that makes sense. |
Posted By: NomoreJohnDeere
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2021 at 6:50pm
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might try filling compartment with diesel or such and soaking / operating to potentially free up rusted linkages or just tear into it......... ------------- HD3 |
Posted By: Lazy
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2021 at 7:00pm
| Ya likely try and free it up and see if I can get a better understanding by see what the left side is doing that the right side isn’t. Hoping those brake adjust ports are actually a thing. More than once I’ve had thing apart and then been like wish would have checked ............. while it was running. Still wondering if tracks have to come off to take steering clutches out. There is a decent amount of videos out there for JohnDeere steering clutches, no such luck with these. |
Posted By: Lazy
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2021 at 8:14pm
I read somewhere else of a no movement and that was caused by the snub shaft walking itself out of the steering clutch....broken c clip. Looking at parts blow up in manual might make sense. And might explain why you can see the splines in this picture. Also might explain why the release bearing is so far away from the pressure plate. 
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Posted By: pinball
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2021 at 8:41pm
| are you anywhere close to columbia mo |
Posted By: Lazy
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2021 at 8:51pm
| Pretty far south in Udall. |
Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2021 at 9:01pm
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Each section is a separate operating part - steering clutches are their own section and a flange in there drives the top gear of the single reduction drive . Attaching the ring and pinion to clutch section is a small axle shaft that index into clutch hub and is kept from moving by a round clip that indexes into that shaft . If you have drive only on one side then power is not reaching the track - Next question is WHY So opening up the steering clutch area and checking IF anything in that compartment is broken or not working - It might be easier to set machine up on blocking with tracks free of ground to do some checks when applying power or checking drive components. What I have done is using loader raise machine off ground , slide blocking under track about 1/2 distance of track - lower machine so it rocks forward - block under back of machine to tight fit to drawbar area - again use loader to lift front of machine - remove blocks from under track and then block front of machine up so tracks are free from floor .Now service on all parts can commence . No the track can stay on unless there is a problem in single reduction case - and even then that can be services without removal of track or splitting of track as rear sprocket is bolted to drive axle . Drive axle is held on from inside of rear housing with nut on end of axle shaft within a small housing for bearing - cover held on by snap ring and internal shimmed to preload the bearings ------------- Life lesson: If you’re being chased by a lion, you’re on a horse, to the left of you is a giraffe and on the right is a unicorn, what do you do? You stop drinking and get off the carousel. |
Posted By: Lazy
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2021 at 9:52pm
| Coke super interesting way to get her up in the air definitely gonna try it. At this point I feel like I have a good ideal of likely cause. Should help so when i get to the machine I can go straight to the issue and not waste too much time just messing around. After fixing cars for 20+ year lost the want to fix things on my free time. First time I’ve looked forward to getting into something on my free time in a while. Thanks again to all hope to have an update in near future. |
Posted By: Randaleky
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2021 at 12:02am
| To me something just does not look right in the last picture. the fork that works the through out bearing appears to have the bearing up against the fingers of the clutch. My problem is if i am seeing correctly the non splined part of the axle is inside the clutch pack and the splines located in the bearing may be the splines that should be in the transmission . If this is correct it would indicate the axle has shifted toward the outside because the splines are on the end of the axle on both ends and no smooth axle should be seen between the splines and the clutch pack . could be wrong and seeing things but just my observation. |
Posted By: Lazy
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2021 at 9:31am
| I agree with most of the statements made but am hoping that the shafts has actually gone into the transmission and not pulled out. Hoping to get to the machine next weekend and get it taken apart and maybe have some more answers. There was a post from earlier 2020 and guy was having same issue as me with an hd4. His was stripped down pretty far with really good pictures but still no answer on what he found to be the issue. |
Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2021 at 10:28pm
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The axle shaft slides into the rear housing and into ring gear housing , this allows access to the clutch pack . Couple different clutches were used - mine had a single plate (like a truck clutch) and fingered pressure plate (Auburn style) others have said they had multi clutch plates more like a HD5 or large machines use. If you slide the axle shaft into housing it is a good idea to put a tie wire on it so it can be easily pulled back out of housing or you will be cussing as you try to get it back out . ------------- Life lesson: If you’re being chased by a lion, you’re on a horse, to the left of you is a giraffe and on the right is a unicorn, what do you do? You stop drinking and get off the carousel. |
Posted By: Lazy
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2021 at 12:14pm
| Thanks for the tip hoping to get to it soon. Southern MO isn’t that cold now but waiting for weather to get a bit better. |