8HP Kohler magnum mystery
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
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Forum Name: Shops, Barns, Varmints, and Trucks
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URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=171112
Printed Date: 14 Aug 2025 at 1:14am
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Topic: 8HP Kohler magnum mystery
Posted By: jaybmiller
Subject: 8HP Kohler magnum mystery
Date Posted: 14 May 2020 at 5:30am
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sigh, gettin too old for this.. neighbour's Horse rototiller,engine kinda slowed down, stumble, died. He replaces sparkplug and air filter. Won't start. has good blue spark,plug .025, gas, compression,kinda hard to spin over,won't even cough or bark with gas into carb or cylinder. was low on oil, now full. hard(for me) to pull over with plug, easy without. I was thinking 'kinda siezed' but she spins and valves open/close. Not ONE bang. Anyone work on them before ?? ANY ideas what's wrong ?? I though about timing but he was in the garden, NO rocks, it just slowly died.. sure wish it had electric start.... thanks for any insight. Jay
------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Replies:
Posted By: baverwolf
Date Posted: 14 May 2020 at 8:19am
| Could it have maybe partially sheared the flywheel key causing timing to be off and it fights against itself??? |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 14 May 2020 at 8:32am
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I had one similar several years ago... Got low on oil and the aluminum bushing/ bearing on end of the crank "stuck".... Not bad, so i broke it free and filled with oil and rotated 100 times till it felt "better"... tried to start and it only had 40 psi compression... Rings got hot and distorted.... had to hone and new rings. ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 14 May 2020 at 10:08am
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Had Techumsa on my tiller and no spark as well as carb was bad from water in carb that froze - found it cheaper to go to Harbor Freight and get new engine for under $100 and repower it . ------------- Life lesson: If you’re being chased by a lion, you’re on a horse, to the left of you is a giraffe and on the right is a unicorn, what do you do? You stop drinking and get off the carousel. |
Posted By: chaskaduo
Date Posted: 14 May 2020 at 11:04am
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Them $99 6hp Predators are a pig in a poke. Gotta get em up and running right away to see if any good after a week of use. I call em the Good, the Bad, and the Fugly. Been there, but good one's seem to last well. ------------- 1938 B, 79 Dynamark 11/36 6spd, 95 Weed-Eater 16hp, 2010 Bolens 14hp |
Posted By: ac fleet
Date Posted: 14 May 2020 at 1:04pm
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repower is a royal pain!--the replacements never fit and the el-cheepos are a joke! ------------- http://machinebuildersnetwork.com/ |
Posted By: Dusty MI
Date Posted: 14 May 2020 at 1:50pm
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I have a repowered 720. It had been repowered before I bought it. It's working very well. Dusty ------------- 917 H, '48 G, '65 D-10 series III "Allis Express" |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 14 May 2020 at 3:39pm
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I see a lot of them $99. Predators being put on go carts and there is a version with a 3 speed to repower old HONDA 70 mini Bikes from the 1970s.
------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: Walker
Date Posted: 14 May 2020 at 6:39pm
| Don't underestimate the 6hp 99 buck Predator for price, quality and buildability. Some of them 6 hp Predators you see at the go kart tracks are actually putting out 25. They got a hemi version too if ya can find one. |
Posted By: Walker
Date Posted: 14 May 2020 at 6:59pm
| If ya get bored do a youtube search for Detroit City mini bike races. Should make a believer out of you. |
Posted By: HD6GTOM
Date Posted: 14 May 2020 at 9:34pm
| Dad's tiller, the exhaust valve seat would raise up outta the block. Caused him many hours of problems before they figured it out. |
Posted By: Dave H
Date Posted: 15 May 2020 at 9:43am
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I bought one of those HF 99buck motors to repower my ancient tiller. The take off was the traditional 5 hp aluminum Briggs. The knock off dropped right onto the frame and the bolt on holes were an exact fit up (same as Briggs). Gave the rope one yank and have been running the hey out of it for three years. been kinda contemplating giving it an oil change this year.
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Posted By: copyrite1972
Date Posted: 15 May 2020 at 10:16am
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Did the Harbor Frieght $100.00 engine swap on my Troy Bilt Tiller, took longer to go get it than it did to install it! ------------- D15 Series II |
Posted By: Walker
Date Posted: 15 May 2020 at 10:18am
| Predator is a Honda clone, right down to a lot of part interchangeability. I'm sure it's a tad lacking in quality but for a 100 smackers what the hey. There is a lot of things the Chinkos need blamed for Predators aint one of em. |
Posted By: chaskaduo
Date Posted: 15 May 2020 at 10:53am
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I had 2 out of 3 fail right out of the box. Crack in case on one (Fugly), and no spark on another (Bad), third one a charm (Good). lot of running and fanagulin involved.
------------- 1938 B, 79 Dynamark 11/36 6spd, 95 Weed-Eater 16hp, 2010 Bolens 14hp |
Posted By: Dennis(IA)
Date Posted: 15 May 2020 at 11:39am
| Had something similar on a 12 horse Kohler. The check is easy, remove the cover for the timing gear ( 4 bolts I think) and check the compression relief mechanism. My engine had the spring come off (I think, many moons ago) thus no compression relief. Put it back on, never happened again ????? |
Posted By: Walker
Date Posted: 15 May 2020 at 4:25pm
| Until now I've never heard of anybody having any trouble with Predator motors till after it's had the governor removed and been properly flailed but I still think they are the best things to come out of Wuhanland for awhile. They sure beat them Lihuan or whatever they were. |
Posted By: chaskaduo
Date Posted: 15 May 2020 at 5:04pm
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Haven't bought one for 5-6 years, some maybe improved. ------------- 1938 B, 79 Dynamark 11/36 6spd, 95 Weed-Eater 16hp, 2010 Bolens 14hp |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 15 May 2020 at 5:35pm
I'm thinkin, you need to check compression, a burnt head gasket may be the culprit...  ------------- Source: Babylon Bee. Sponsored by BRAWNDO, its got what you need! |
jaybmiller wrote:Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 16 May 2020 at 4:02pm
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well can't check compression... like most 'newer ' engines has Auromatic Compression Release.. though finger ove rplug hole says it has compression. It ain't timing... after a 'fun' afternoon ,finally got flywheel off, key is 100% perfect.... Has NO bang,pop, not ONE hint of firing.... has gas, spark and timing...dang curious.. Sure would be nice if it had electric start though.... ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: Dakota Dave
Date Posted: 17 May 2020 at 8:34am
| Since you've got the fan shroud off just use your impact on the flywheel nut it works just as good as an electric starter |
Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 17 May 2020 at 9:01am
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Should still have a condenser even if electronic IIRC, if does change it. EDIT: on second thought just noticed this series engine should be mechanical fuel pump equipped, not just gravity. Diaphragm could be bad. |
Posted By: ac fleet
Date Posted: 17 May 2020 at 1:18pm
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One thing I ran into on my 147 cadet was that the compression release was bent too much and was letting too much compression out causing it to not fire. ---- I bent the tab so it didnt open so much and the thing been running ever since. ----That could be your problem too. --- compression releases are a PITA on any motor and very hard to set. -- be careful to not break the tab off when messin with them cause thats the only way you can set them ---- no adjustment with screws on them. ------------- http://machinebuildersnetwork.com/ |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 17 May 2020 at 2:39pm
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so far NOTHING says WHY it can't fire, not even a chug or bang or pfff.. it has spark, gas,compression and timing. dang mystery to me. ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: ac fleet
Date Posted: 17 May 2020 at 6:38pm
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But it has to have ENOUGH compression! ---some wont do and without right amount they wont do anything. ------------- http://machinebuildersnetwork.com/ |
Posted By: Walker
Date Posted: 17 May 2020 at 6:53pm
| Time to administer ether? |
Posted By: A-C_220
Date Posted: 17 May 2020 at 7:33pm
| Is the gas good? did it get some water in the tank from a bad gas cap and suck it up? does it wet the spark plug? |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 17 May 2020 at 8:24pm
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it was running fine , then slowly died in the garden... fresh gas, new plug and air filter.. I've even put gas directly into the carb (that should be rich...no choke neeed)..nada, not even a cough.. same with take plug out, gas into cylinder, put plug back in nada, not even a cough.... every other engine I've ever done either too gets at least a back, backfire, cough, something that says I'm trying to start....... due to silly cv19 BS, I can't get parts for a spare engine to see if it'll replace this one... luckily I have 7 jobs on the go, 3 more 'appered' today..so engine is literally on the shelf for a week...maybe...it might get kicked into the garbage sooner though.... ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: modirt
Date Posted: 18 May 2020 at 8:30am
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Always thought Kohler engines were OK. Having 2nd thoughts. My zero turn SCAG dropped dead on me last year. Took 2 or 3 weeks to get it back......had some kind of short in the wiring. Lasted till yesterday.......was running OK when parked. Pulled it out, filled with gas, added oil.....leaks past oil filter seal that will not stay tight.......and she started right up......but would cough, sputter.....come back, etc. Got progressively worse as I went on. I assumed it was water in the gas......was acting like it, but drained gas and filled with new and it didn't help. Will still start, idle, but that is all. Something is going out........or it has another short in the wiring or a sensor is going bad. Too many safety sensors on these for my taste.
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Posted By: ac fleet
Date Posted: 18 May 2020 at 11:40am
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Modirt---its not your engines fault its the mower that its mounted on! ------------- http://machinebuildersnetwork.com/ |
Posted By: modirt
Date Posted: 18 May 2020 at 12:28pm
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Am beginning to wonder about the SCAG, although I have not complaints except the engine. Only other mower like it I've spent much seat time on was my folks Toro, which is a consumer grade machine, but has a Kawasaki engine. That mower also has problems, but the engine isn't one of them. When shopping, had a very strong recommendation for a Hustler (mower, not the mag). But no local dealer. Nearly ALL commercial weed whackers around here run Xmark. Looked at them but dealer seemed indifferent to my plight unless I was going to buy several. Apparently they have customers who buy 50 or more every year. What I have heard about SCAG......from a former dealer.....was the machine was good, but management of the company that makes them were total jerks. Dealer dropped the entire line soley over business practices of the company. Parked his remaining inventory out on the lot and told SCAG to come get em before somebody stole them. We may need to start a Zero Turn mower thread to hash all this out?
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Posted By: tadams(OH)
Date Posted: 18 May 2020 at 2:59pm
| I like my Hustler. When still working we used Hustler Mower to mow a 30 acre cemetery with 72" decks and didn't have any problem, when I retired I bought a Hustler Super Z to mow my 5 acre lot about 5 years ago they were running a special o interest financing so I traded my used one for a new Super Z figuring it will last me the rest of my life with just regular maintenance. |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 18 May 2020 at 6:38pm
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In the 14 years I have had my dixie chopper, with the 28 EFI kohler, on it, I have only had a seal on the bottom(vert crank), and the oil pan gasket go(twice). Other than 1 gearbox that drives the pumps, and a scarred o-ring, on one of the pumps, NOTHING else major! It will eat a deck drive belt anywhere from 25-250 hrs, and generally eats a pump drive belt about every other year(4-600 hours). Sure wish they were still in biz! Still have it, and use it, with over 3k on the clock, as a backup, and every week, to mow the flat stuff, here... ------------- Source: Babylon Bee. Sponsored by BRAWNDO, its got what you need! |
Posted By: HudCo
Date Posted: 19 May 2020 at 9:24am
| no one has still mentioned a leak down test for leaking valves from no lash when hot it probley needs the valves adjusted may be the seats relapped |
Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 20 May 2020 at 10:40pm
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The Magnum 8 doesn't have points and condenser, it's all electronic. It also has a start timing retard built into the electronics. The valves are not adjustable like the older K series were. I ditto the do a cylinder leakage test and see what sort of condition the engine is in. ------------- "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford |
Posted By: modirt
Date Posted: 21 May 2020 at 12:49pm
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My Kohler engine issue has been resolved. A ground wire had worked loose and was making intermittent contact.....so with all the electrical components needing power to run .....it was cutting out when the juice was cut. This mower has had two issues that required expert service and both of them have been electrical. This particular mower was offered with 3 different engine options......Briggs, Kohler and Kawasaki with $2,000 price step along the way. Kawasaki was $4,000 more in price than the Briggs....only difference being the engine. That was just silly. I asked service manager which ones had the most issues, and he said they get more Kohlers in for service than the other two combined. Rarely major......easy to fix stuff.....but not running is not running.
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Posted By: chaskaduo
Date Posted: 21 May 2020 at 2:03pm
 More Knowledge for all of us.------------- 1938 B, 79 Dynamark 11/36 6spd, 95 Weed-Eater 16hp, 2010 Bolens 14hp |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 21 May 2020 at 2:40pm
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what i don't understand is that it was running fine( tilling small garden) , then chug, chug, died. Owner figure..oops, gas, filled, no start, installed new plug(gap 025),no start.. I said..ok , I'll look at it. It has good blue spark, thumbs blows away from head,gas in crb or plug hole.... not even a HINT of firing . Took flywheel off and confirmed key is in the slot.. That's the mystery to me...not a HINT of starting..... ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: chaskaduo
Date Posted: 21 May 2020 at 2:56pm
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Somebody will have an answer, lots of knowledge here. I know sometimes things pop into my head a lot later out of nowhere as the answer to some ones question. Only to find out it is already answered. And that is OK. Patience is not one of my better virtues, and I really do need to work on that. Not saying your not being patient. But it might pop into some ones head soon.Wiring messed up by grease and oil has been my biggest problem. I guess I tend to lube things well, and not power wash. I'll learn. Knock on head! ------------- 1938 B, 79 Dynamark 11/36 6spd, 95 Weed-Eater 16hp, 2010 Bolens 14hp |