Diesel engine been sitting...starting procedure?
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Topic: Diesel engine been sitting...starting procedure?
Posted By: CrestonM
Subject: Diesel engine been sitting...starting procedure?
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2019 at 8:05pm
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I've always been told that when waking up gasoline engines that have sat for years to put a little oil in the cylinders to lubricate things so it's not a total dry start, and let it crank some to get oil flowing before you turn the fuel on. What do you do on a diesel? Is it a bad idea to pull the injectors and do the same thing? (Never pulled an injector, but I know it's more work than a spark plug) I'm talking about engines that have sat from anywhere from 10-20 years, but aren't stuck. A friend bought a couple 1970s project tractors that've been sitting within that year range and we were wondering if it was necessary to do something like that before we try to get them running. Aside from the obvious, like oil change and fuel filter change, what do y'all recommend. Thanks!
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Replies:
Posted By: MACK
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2019 at 8:40pm
| If it will fire right off, I would just frank it up. If you pull injectors and put oil in cylinders, most diesels pistons have a bowl in them, so most of the oil will go in bowl rather than cylinder walls. Then if it fires on the oil, you could have a runaway until it burned oil out of pistons. I would put oil in cylinders, leave injectors out, spin it over until it blow the oil out of cylinders. The put injectors back in and fire it up. MACK |
Posted By: MACK
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2019 at 8:42pm
| Fire, not (frank). MACK |
Posted By: Michael V (NM)
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2019 at 8:53pm
| Ya might pull the air cleaner, an make sure that there's not a rats nest in there, or have a big hole chewed in the air cleaner,,I'd say,,if it turns over by hand,, go ahead and see if it will fire off... |
Posted By: exSW
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2019 at 9:16pm
| I'd definitely check the intake and exhaust for obstructions. Fired up a 800ci Minneapolis Moline stationary engine on a sawmill once. Squirrels got in the exhaust manifold somehow. Thing blew flaming acorns for about 15 minutes. |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2019 at 4:26pm
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Thank guys. We'll make sure the intakes/exhausts are clean and maybe just give it a go. I guess I've heard horror stories about damage done to dry starts on engines that've sat for a long time, but maybe it's not worth worrying too much about. |
Posted By: TimCNY
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2019 at 9:34am
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Would no-fuel cranking would circulate (poorly, slowly, yes but at least a little) enough oil to lubricate prior to starting? ------------- I need more than 200 characters for my "signature." I'd love to see that changed to 250! |
Posted By: exSW
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2019 at 10:04am
| Yes |
Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2019 at 12:43pm
| I don't see how starter cranking is going to oil cylinder walls. Bearings sorta. Those older engines typically had inverted oil filters and it takes a little run time to fill them to build oil pressure. If was mine,I'd start it just off idle and let it run . If it was a D21-210-220 you could pull it in gear and spin engine fast enough to build oil and not load cylinder walls with firing pressure. That might throw enough lube on walls to help. HEY! fill oil to top of spout , covering crank ,and spin it. That should splash oil on walls. Drain down and start. |
Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2019 at 1:02pm
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My biggest concern on this is if the pump is stuck from sitting in old fuel, and now you hit the starter, and can instantly ruin the pump by seizing the head in a rotary. I always recommend to try turning the engine over by the fan at first, see how easy it will move. Then put a wrench on the crank pulley and turn it over through several revolutions, in normal direction of rotation, clockwise looking from the front. Then I'd be a little more comfortable trying to fire it up. ------------- 210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers! |
Posted By: exSW
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2019 at 2:45pm
| If you keep the air shut off while turning it over and the fuel delivery is good the diesel will lube the cylinders and rings. And it will build oil pressure. Getting oil up into the head and valve train is what you want. Otherwise you run the risk of doing valve guide and cam bushing damage that won't show up right away. That's why on fresh engine builds its a good idea to spin the oil pump drive before startup. |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2019 at 3:33pm
Hi Ed, we did turn the engines over with a wrench a couple times, but we could do it again to before we try to start. One of the engines is an old British "Ford Dorset" 6 cyl with an inline Minimec pump. Thoughts on that? I've learned we need to check the oil level, because apparently the pump has its own oil reservoir. Also...I know engines like my Allis 2800 have a rotary pump, and this Ford has an inline. Which is a better system do you think? Sure seems easier to pull lines on the Minimec, but maybe the rotary has other advantages? |
injpumpEd wrote:Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2019 at 3:36pm
That's something else I was wondering about...the valve train. I don't know if this is a stupid novice idea or not, but what about putting a light oil in a pump sprayer, and spraying into the valve cover? Would that allow the guides to be lubricated at least a little bit you think? I don't know if these newer diesel engines of the '70s have valve stem seals or not....I'm just used to working on the gas engines of the '40s.
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Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2019 at 6:22pm
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Inline pumps tend to fair better sitting than rotaries, but can stick in the start fuel, or wide open position. So my suggestion there is, loosen all the injection lines, and crank it over. Note how much fuel is squirting out the loose lines. Now put it in shut off position, and make sure it basically quits pumping while cranking again. Loosened lines it may never actually quit pumping completely, but you want to see a definite change going from run to shut-off position while cranking it over. If it never quits squirting fuel, do not tighten the lines and try to start it, it likely will end up running away uncontrolled. ------------- 210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers! |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2019 at 11:14pm
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I don’t know much about diesels, but I’ve heard stories of runaway engines increasing rpm until they blow. Is there truth to that? If it runs away, do you just cut off the fuel? |
Posted By: Dakota Dave
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2019 at 11:28pm
| If it runs away you need to cut off air. All our military equipment has and emergency stop hit the red lever it's got a spring loaded valve that snaps closed cutting off the air the engine will stop. Fitting off fuel won't stop a runaway once it gets to far the engine will run on the crankcase oil that it's puking into the breather system until it self destructs. Plug the intake and it'll stop right away. |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2019 at 4:37am
Yep, a big thick rag, and a flat object, to force the wad of the rag across the air intake of the motor should be on hand... ------------- Source: Babylon Bee. Sponsored by BRAWNDO, its got what you need! |