welding questions
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URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=164464
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Topic: welding questions
Posted By: LouSWPA
Subject: welding questions
Date Posted: 19 Sep 2019 at 10:53pm
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what do I need to know to weld on an axle tube? the sway bar/shock mount on my F350 has rotted off. I need to fab and weld a new one on. I have Lincoln 225 ac welder, and since the tube is rusty (I will clean it as best I can, but there will still, no doubt be rust present) and I am most familiar with 6013 I guess that is what I will use. Question, what do I need to do to weld on the tube? drain it? I know it is vented, but that is a small hole, will it ne necessary to provide better ventilation? Any other suggestions, thoughts, comments? maybe 6011 I have a small MIG, but I doubt it would be up to the task ------------- I am still confident of this; I will see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living. Wait for the Lord; be strong and take heart and wait for the Lord. Ps 27 |
Replies:
Posted By: desertjoe
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2019 at 2:01am
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Hey Lou,,,first of all ,,,I ain't no guru when it comes to weldin,,but I have welded (with an arc welder),on the axle tubes before and one thing I DO know,,,they are not as thick as one would think,,,, As far as which rod,,I'm hopin the real welder gurus here chime in. My thoughts would be to clean ,,,then clean some more and I would tend to build up the washed out places before tryin to attach something to the tubes,,,but that's just me,,,,
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Posted By: allisrutledge
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2019 at 6:46am
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As said spend more time cleaning . no rust will be your best friend. With a AC welder 6013 or 7014 . on another post there is mentioned a 7018AC rod but I have no experience with it. Good luck ------------- Allis Chalmers still exist in my mind and barns |
Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2019 at 6:54am
| Don't use 6013, not rated to the stress levels that rod will see, 7014 or 7018 or have a weld shop do it. |
Posted By: Strokendiesel002
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2019 at 7:13am
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https://www.weldingsuppliesfromioc.com/blog/are-you-using-the-right-rods/" rel="nofollow - https://www.weldingsuppliesfromioc.com/blog/are-you-using-the-right-rods/ Might have a quick read through this article. 6013 could be used for tacking, but DMiller is correct. I've used my little Hobart 125 for doing the same job your doing many times (.035 wire). Only time I had issues was on 1 lifted Jeep that the shock was actually bad (stuck, didn't move in or out more than an inch or two). It actually ripped the mount off. I thought that maybe I welded too hot, so put on a new bracket and a short time later it broke a 3rd time. That's when I started investigating the shocks and refused to weld on it again until I had new shocks to bolt up. Best of luck! |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2019 at 8:56am
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I have a DC welder so I would use 7018....... If I had an AC machine, I would go with the 6011 .. that is 60K stress rating which should be a good as the base metal and tube. ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: ac fleet
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2019 at 8:56am
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The axle tubes are not very thick in places, so be careful! I used 6013's on a couple and they never broke, so the main thing is to go clean and weld slow. It can be done. I have used 7018 rods but don't like the way they handle. they are for high carbon (dirty ) steel like plow shares etc. Axle housings are not made of plow steel. ---thats my take on this. Good luck on your repair. ------------- http://machinebuildersnetwork.com/ |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2019 at 9:05am
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I have same welder, 30 years now.... I'd use 1/8" 7018AC, 90 amps first 1-2 psses, then 105 amps for pass 3-4. tricks are 2) CLEAN both pieces 3) CLAMP both pieces 1) CLEAN for GREAT ground I cut/extend/'resize' trailer axles all the time,always use 7018AC...never ever had a problem. maybe I'm a 'broken record' but I only use 7018AC... Jay ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2019 at 9:14am
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I have used 7018 rods but don't like the way they handle. they are for high carbon (dirty ) steel like plow shares etc... 7018 is a MEDIUM carbon rod... 70K stress level........... 60xx is 60K rod which is a lower level "strength" .....either will work on "most generic applications"....... if your welding blades, plow shares, etc your in the 9018 or 90K rod strength where you need pre and post heating for repairs...7018 is pretty generic as a "good al purpose weld rod" .............. Jay may be right on the 7018AC... I have never tried it since I don't have an AC machine... on DC I use 7018 90% of the time...
------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2019 at 9:50am
Love threads like this!  
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Posted By: desertjoe
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2019 at 10:17am
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Hey lou,,great information we're gettin here ain't we,,,?? Since I have an AC machine I been using 6011 and 6013 because of info from the Welder Supply,,??? Good, bad, or ugly,,,thas what I got,,,I'ma gonna ask the weld supply guys "IF" they can get some small tubes of 7018-AC just to try but I doubt they will not want to mess with it,,,,sigh,,, Anyway on your second part,,I don't think draining the oil out of axle is necessary as you ain't gonna be welding on it continously enough to build up enough pressure to make a difference. Just make sure the vent is open. One thing I would prolly do is park the trk or jack the opposing side so you don't have any oil to tend with in the repair area.. You can look at the drain plug and see where the oil level usually runs and is not very high on the tubes. I think you'll be ok,,,Good Luck,,and let us know how you came out,,,
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Posted By: Ray54
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2019 at 12:16pm
Tractor Supply and True Value hardware ( if they bother) have one or 5 lb packages of welding rod for trying different numbers.  Not the frugal way to buy it but for trying you don't need 9 lbs of rod your not going to use.
I have some of the 7018 AC rod not as nice as running the real DC rod but then again it's old even if it has been in the deep freeze.
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Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2019 at 5:34pm
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I'd prolly MIG it, but if not, then I would go wit 1 pass of 6013, to tack, and thicken up the bead along the casing, then top off with 6011, for better penetration... ------------- Source: Babylon Bee. Sponsored by BRAWNDO, its got what you need! |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2019 at 8:49am
| Ok, really dumb question maybe for you arcie experts, but how do you get better penetration going over top of a prior bead? Wouldn’t you be better off with the deeper penetration rod at the base or first pass of the weld? |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2019 at 8:56am
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you don't... 3rd weld material is 'attached' to 2nd, 2nd attached to 1st, 1st to 'base metal'.. unless you really up the amps and have ALL of it molten and fuse to the base metal. ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: LouSWPA
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2019 at 9:10am
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Well, I really appreciate everyones input. My first choice is to find someone who knows what they are doing, and has experience and pay them what it is worth. If that doesn't work, I will take knowledge cleaned here and attempt to do it myself. ------------- I am still confident of this; I will see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living. Wait for the Lord; be strong and take heart and wait for the Lord. Ps 27 |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2019 at 12:31pm
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Tbone, lets say your plate or tube is .100 inch thick ... you have two types of rods. One puts down a bead and burns in .075 inch... The other one burns in .125 inch ... What you do is use the first rod and burn in .075 inch into the .100 and maybe end up with a thickness of .150 inch... you clean that, then use the second rod which burns ins .125 inch and gets the final thickness of .220 inch......... then you weld up as needed to get the end thickness. ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2019 at 6:28pm
To specify, and clarify, 6011 tends to over-penetrate thin bases (cuts, instead of welds). if you lay down a layer, to thicken up, you use something that won't burn through, like 6013... 6011 then penetrates through the 6013, but doesn't burn through the axle... ------------- Source: Babylon Bee. Sponsored by BRAWNDO, its got what you need! |
Tbone95 wrote:Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2019 at 8:41am
See, that’s what I was thinking and getting at. But read Dave’s last post, and it ain’t that straight forward. Steve’s also. Makes sense Steve and Dave. Thanks. |
Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2019 at 9:06pm
| Burned a few boxes of 7018 on dozer push arms with dad's old AC welder. That was before they made a 7018 AC. |