8010 under powered
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=160736
Printed Date: 29 Jul 2025 at 7:14pm
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Topic: 8010 under powered
Posted By: Ed&Sherry
Subject: 8010 under powered
Date Posted: 07 May 2019 at 5:40am
| yesterday got the 8010 out hooked to a trailer with 2 ton in it,started down the road, first hill come to had to shift down to 2nd hi to climb. went back put a 190xt on the trailer and climbed the same hill in 4th hi. the 8010 is 4 wheel drive, power shift, it would loose rpm,drop down 1, gain to 2500rpm ,drop back to 16-1700 , starts good, 190 starts better, runs clean when not under a load, could timing be off ? or maybe tranny issue ? ambec pump on her,,,,any ideas thanks Ed |
Replies:
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 07 May 2019 at 5:51am
| To save yourself a lot of wasted time and $$$$, and get a 30 psi gauge installed in the intake manifold to measure turbocharger boost numbers. The first repair to be made is change BOTH fuel filters and to disconnect the fuel supply hose coming from the tank at the water separator filter and route it under the bellhousing (if it isn't already). While that hose is disconnected, make sure it gushes fuel out of it to insure there isn't a fuel tank blockage. If this tractor has fluid in any tires, it needs to go away. FWA cannot be engaged when on the road as well. Your peak boost number at 2300 full throttle/loaded RPM's should be more than 15 and closer to 18 psi. That tractor will weigh 15K with no fluid which may be nearly double of a 190 without fluid. |
Posted By: victoryallis
Date Posted: 07 May 2019 at 5:56am
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Fuel filters a great place to start. ------------- 8030 and 8050MFWD, 7580, 3 6080's, 160, 7060, 175, heirloom D17, Deere 8760 |
Posted By: wekracer
Date Posted: 07 May 2019 at 6:05am
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I’m with the dr on weight. Your your carrying an extra 190 on the 8010. We had two 6080s. One 2wd with no fluid and one 4wd with fluid in back. You could really tell a difference between the two pulling the disk bine down the road. The 4wd was always 1 gear lower on hills. |
Posted By: MACK
Date Posted: 07 May 2019 at 7:04am
| Next place would be pump. That pump has a problem of retarding timing. When it does, it will burn decal off hood at exmanifold. MACK |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 07 May 2019 at 7:06am
| X whatever on fuel filters, AND air filter. |
Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 07 May 2019 at 7:12am
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We had a customer 20 years ago with an 8010 2wd that came in one day to get a turbo. He put it on, then brought pump in (ROOSA) to be rebuilt, because of low power, because turbo wasn't his problem. After much money spent, never was a boost gauge installed. It ended up getting the engine torn down, someone suspected cam key possibly slipped. If I remember right, it ended up getting completely overhauled. All back together, still ran same, heavy black smoke, and no power. FINALLY, someone found a plug was missing in the intake manifold. I'd heard about an M2 (301) combine years earlier that had the same thing happen. BOOST GAUGE in the intake manifold can help diagnosis. Sounds like it's new to you? Good luck, and keep us posted.
------------- 210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers! |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 07 May 2019 at 7:26am
| Mack's comment reminded me of a true 8050 AmBach story from 25 yrs ago. I had a Customer who ran an 8050 for 24 hrs straight in the Fall chisel plowing. He ran the tractor into his shed and shut it down. Next morning he couldn't get it to start. He called me and it took a couple of cans of ether to get it to go, even after the block heater was plugged in overnite. Long story short, the AmBach pump had a problem and retarded the timing and he melted the tops out of all six pistons. A few years later, I had an 8070 do a similar thing...….another engine OH due to an AmBach pump. |
Posted By: Dakota Dave
Date Posted: 07 May 2019 at 7:43am
| Several years ago I took a Volvo out of the shed to run a load of grain in. Couldn't get over 50 mph. Truck will normaly run 70 with 70000 lbs. got back to the shop pulled the air cleaner. Mice had made a nice home. It had only been in the shed for two weeks after beet harvest. Start with the simple stuff. It took me 45 minutes to clean the primary and secondary filters. Dirty fuel filters will cause a sever loss of power. If you don't have a boost guage get one. After you've eliminated the simple stuff then it's time to tear into it. |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 07 May 2019 at 9:06am
| Another thing about FWA tractors that is often misunderstood: if you have a 155 HP FWA and compare it to a 145 HP 2wd and use them hauling loaded wagons down the road, the lower HP 2 WD will outperform the higher HP FWA tractor. You cannot expect an FWA tractors front axle at 19 MPH to spin all those gears for free !! Even when not "locked-in" you are still turning all those gears. At 5 to 6 MPH it isn't a problem and the extra traction is a huge benefit in the field. But on the road, the FWA robs HP that normally was used to pull the loaded wagons. |
Posted By: exSW
Date Posted: 07 May 2019 at 10:00am
| Ok,how do you plumb this boost gauge? I like my 7010 but it likes low range more than I do. |
Posted By: CAL(KS)
Date Posted: 07 May 2019 at 11:51am
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right into the ether injection plug on the intake ------------- Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20 Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15 |
Posted By: exSW
Date Posted: 07 May 2019 at 12:23pm
Does that ever sound right. Since it came to me with ether injection not hooked up. |
CAL(KS) wrote:Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 07 May 2019 at 12:27pm
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Should be a 1/8in plug on manifold somewhere. Get fitting for 1/8in line and get some bulk 1/8in plastic line to run to gauge. Use little rubber o-rings in place of ferrules and tighten just over finger tight(or will crush line). Quick and easy.
Not a fan of Ambacs either. Ok when everything is right but bad things can happen. A boost guage and pyrometer are worth while to tell what's really going on....on any tractor.
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Posted By: exSW
Date Posted: 07 May 2019 at 5:57pm
| Prices on boost gauges are all over the place. |
Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 07 May 2019 at 6:19pm
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any 25-30 # pressure gauge will work. You can just screw it in, or use a grease gun hose to extend it out for diagnostics. Just measuring air pressure. ------------- 210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers! |
Posted By: exSW
Date Posted: 07 May 2019 at 6:43pm
Doesn't change under load? That's what I've been noticing pulls down to easy. |
Posted By: wayne IA
Date Posted: 08 May 2019 at 12:34am
| For a boost gauge get a gauge out of a N5 Gleaner. Have that on my D21 to monitor the engine. |
Posted By: Alvin M
Date Posted: 08 May 2019 at 6:33am
| I had a customer that his 8010 ran hot and low on power bypassed muffler ran cooler and 1 gear faster on the plow |
Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 08 May 2019 at 7:16am
Yes, you need to position it so you can see it or a helper riding along can watch it. Or better yet, get it on a dyno. That will definitely tell you if it's actually a low power problem, or if it's just a heavy tractor and small engine weighing it down. ------------- 210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers! |
Posted By: exSW
Date Posted: 08 May 2019 at 7:20am
I'm thinking little engine big tractor has something to do with it. I have some 8% slopes here. |
Posted By: Charlie175
Date Posted: 08 May 2019 at 7:25am
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Also remember the 8010 is geared faster than a 190. 5 mph greater top speed. This will cause the 8010 to drop off in power faster on hills. ------------- Charlie '48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD |
Posted By: AC7060IL
Date Posted: 08 May 2019 at 2:34pm
Amen. Install the pyrometer heat sensor just before turbo’s exhaust turbine. High boost can help create high EGT (exhaust gas temperature). Try to keep EGT from climbing past the 1200F level & staying their for prolonged duration. |
Posted By: exSW
Date Posted: 25 Jul 2019 at 12:23pm
| Finally got around to plumbing a boost gauge into my 7010.8 pounds at rated speed in 1st hi pulling a six percent grade isn't to good. |
Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 25 Jul 2019 at 12:55pm
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so makes about 80hp. A general rule of thumb is 10hp pre psi of boost. So, a 7010 should be at 10-11 psi at very least, under full load. There's lots of exceptions to that rule when you get in to tight turbine housings, and variable geometry. Neither of those in play here. ------------- 210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers! |
Posted By: exSW
Date Posted: 25 Jul 2019 at 12:59pm
| So I should start looking for leaks? |
Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 25 Jul 2019 at 2:35pm
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be a good idea. Is it smoking black when only making 8 psi? Maybe it's just not getting the fuel if it's not smoking. ------------- 210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers! |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 25 Jul 2019 at 2:55pm
| Your peak boost number at 2300 full throttle/loaded RPM's should be more than 15 and closer to 18 psi on a healthy 8010 tractor. |
Posted By: exSW
Date Posted: 25 Jul 2019 at 4:13pm
| Yes, it is rolling coal. Not fallout bad but definitely black smoke. Doesn't look like efficient combustion to me. |
Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 25 Jul 2019 at 5:31pm
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exSW is working on a 7010, virtually the same. low boost and black smoke tells me either the turbo is junk, or as simple as a boost leak, missing plug, or blown intake gasket. ------------- 210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers! |
Posted By: exSW
Date Posted: 25 Jul 2019 at 6:34pm
I'm going to try the cheap stuff first. Off to the pressure washer in the AM.
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Posted By: exSW
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2019 at 3:10pm
| Well,she's clean. But there's nothing obvious. The crossover from the intake manifold to the turbo does appear to be RTVed up at the manifold but that doesn't mean it leaks. Is there a way to pinpoint boost leaks? |
Posted By: exSW
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2019 at 5:19pm
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Posted By: kinghunter
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2019 at 5:26am
| So many worry about the 8010 and it’s power. It’s a small block in a big chassis. I compare it to a 350 in a 2 ton truck. You can get to elevator but your not going win a race there. I have a 8010 with 20 pd tranny. And I to worried about it when purchased. I have since stripped it of useless weight. No weights. No fluid. Removed extra fuel tank. Removed muffler under hood. Tractor pulls baler a lot nicer now and runs cooler. Love the 301 for fuel economy but like the old trucks got take your time and enjoy the day. |
Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2019 at 11:49am
The only way you can put compressed air in to leak check is taking the rockers off so all the intake valves stay closed. ------------- 210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers! |
Posted By: Wes (VA)
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2019 at 2:06pm
| Run engine a high idle (wot) trans in park. Spray soapy water on all joints/questionable spots that could leak boost. |
Posted By: exSW
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2019 at 8:48am
 Well that was easy
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Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2019 at 9:49am
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I'm thinking you have a big leak. That may just be a small leak. Seal it up and try it again on boost test. ------------- 210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers! |
Posted By: exSW
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2019 at 10:02am
I thought it was a little light too. No leaks around the crossover base or manifold. Figure if I fix that one it will put more pressure downstream.
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Posted By: exSW
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2019 at 10:41am
All around the flange. So is it resealable?
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Posted By: Fat albert
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2019 at 2:06pm
| I don't know what Agco or Ed charge for that turbo. Butt Amazon has them for $360.00 shipped to your door. |
Posted By: exSW
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2019 at 3:03pm
Been there done that got the Chinese turbo to prove it. I can buy a rebuild kit of all USA,UK or Canadian parts for $60.00 from a mid western Company. And keep my 100% Garrett core. https://www.midwestturboconnection.com/product-p/1004-1009.htm" rel="nofollow - https://www.midwestturboconnection.com/product-p/1004-1009.htm
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Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2019 at 4:26pm
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Replace the turbo. A rebuild kit is bearings and seals. Yours is so eroded, you'd waste so much time trying to get it apart. Looks like that would likely take care of your issue. ------------- 210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers! |
Posted By: AC7060IL
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2019 at 8:49am
Not trying to start a fight. Just curious as I’ve never rebuilt a turbo. Did you perhaps rebuild your now 8010’s leaking turbo? How involved is a typical rebuild kit - shaft, shaft bushings, turbines, etc?? And if so, how many years service, per a rebuild kit? |
Posted By: exSW
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2019 at 10:40am
Not trying to start a eight. Just curious as I’ve never rebuilt a turbo. Did you perhaps rebuild your now 8010’s leaking turbo? How involved is a typical rebuild kit - shaft, shaft bushings, turbines, etc?? And if so, how many years service, per a rebuild kit?[/QUOTE] |
Posted By: exSW
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2019 at 7:44pm
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Posted By: Joe(TX)
Date Posted: 09 Aug 2019 at 6:23pm
A GOOD rebuilder will replace not just the bearings and seals. They will replace impellers and housings if needed. ------------- 1970 190XT, 1973 200, 1962 D-19 Diesel, 1979 7010, 1957 WD45, 1950 WD, 1961 D17, Speed Patrol, D14, All crop 66 big bin, 180 diesel, 1970 170 diesel, FP80 forklift. Gleaner A |
Posted By: exSW
Date Posted: 09 Aug 2019 at 7:01pm
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I went with a new turbo. My reasoning was this.1) less down time. Took me about four hours total. First one I've ever done. 2) Technical support. Ed answers the phone. 3) No core. So I can rebuild my original Garrett at my leasure and have a spare on the shelf for the next tractor.
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