SC Draw Bar Question
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=155980
Printed Date: 17 Jul 2025 at 11:24pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: SC Draw Bar Question
Posted By: Dave(inMA)
Subject: SC Draw Bar Question
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2018 at 4:21pm
Installed the SC draw bar on my WD45 today. In the photo, the two bolts indicated by red arrows are not tight - so the cross bar (at 90* angle to and below the draw bar), bolts and clamp plate (above the draw bar) slide as a unit on the draw bar. Is that correct, or should the bolts be tightened so that the cross bar/clamp doesn't move? ------------- WC, CA, D14, WD45 |
Replies:
Posted By: old farmer
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2018 at 4:41pm
| We always have run with them tight. With PTO being used you will be very happy that they are tight! |
Posted By: Dave(inMA)
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2018 at 4:46pm
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Thanks, old farmer. Does tight make it easier or harder to install the draw bar? ------------- WC, CA, D14, WD45 |
Posted By: PaulB
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2018 at 4:56pm
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You really need to loosen them a bit to make it easier to put the SC drawbar assembly on and off. ------------- If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere. Real pullers don't have speed limits. If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY |
Posted By: dawntreader74
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2018 at 5:14pm
| with the bolts tight the traction booster can't work very good. if it has one on it. don't thank them bolts should ever be tight. booster pulls on the draw bar' how can it work if it's held back? |
Posted By: JimWenigOH
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2018 at 5:22pm
| I don't know the answer to your question, but the Parts Catalog shows that the two bolts that go through the clamp have a hole drilled in them near the end for a cotter pin to be installed. It shows the lock washer and nut to be on top of the clamp, then the cotter pin on up near the end of the bolt. If the bolts were not meant to be tight, why would they have a lock washer in there? I don't know. When I put new bolts in mine, I used grade 8 with a lock nut and left the clamp a "little" loose. The draw bar on my 190 was made to have a little movement when pinned in the center position. |
Posted By: dawntreader74
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2018 at 5:37pm
| got wd45 came home new 1954 had bolts dropped in them two holes with flat plate on top never had nuts on bottom at all. someone put them washers on an whatever else. i can see putting a lock nut on the bottom of the bolts to keep the bolts from jumping out. drawbar can't work right if it can't move. |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2018 at 5:43pm
| Back When I was running SC stuff regular, I put nylon insert locknuts, on the bottom, and tightened up, so there was a little play in the drawbar... |
Posted By: dawntreader74
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2018 at 5:45pm
| traction-booster' pulls on draw bar with spring by the bell. how can it work if it's bolted down ? has to move in an out some. draw bar works same as your plow or whatever sc-tool you put on the tractor should work the same. |
Posted By: Dennis J OPKs
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2018 at 6:43pm
| The first WD's didn't even have bolts, they had a large U bolt with cotter pins to keep it from bouncing out. Also, no Traction Booster as such, it was retrofitted later by merely adding the gauge. Some early pin implements, plow & subsoiler could be used with a pin hitch drawbar and Traction Booster. However most Traction Booster implements came later with their own eye for snap coupler and didn't use the existing drawbar. There were snap coupler conversions available for the WD and they were AC items. I have an early WD operator & maintenance manual (straight gearshift) and it shows no Traction Booster gauge and has the pin hitch drawbar. |
Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2018 at 7:20pm
| Dawntreader ,what implement would you use that needed the drawbar to slide to apply lift to? Around here WD and WD45 drawbars are pulled back and locked down.Plow and disc only thing here to use TB and they didn't use the drawbar. |
Posted By: Dave(inMA)
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2018 at 7:32pm
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It seemed to me that installing the draw bar with the bolts loose was sorta like wrestling with alligators! Which is what prompted my question. A lot of this discussion seems to center around whether the Traction Boost can function if the bolts are tight....but doesn't the TB system depend on the implement being rigidly connected to the tractor? If an implement or load is attached using the draw bar, is it possible for the load to be rigidly connected to the tractor? Seems there'd always be a fair amount of flex in any draw bar hitched situation, and no effective TB. Does this make sense?
------------- WC, CA, D14, WD45 |
Posted By: WF owner
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2018 at 7:33pm
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Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but I was under the impression that the Traction Booster only worked on mounted equipment and it worked by the hydraulic arms raising slightly. Some snap coupler bells (where the bottom link hooks) had the spring and some didn't. I thought the bell was mounted solid to the tractor. I know later tractors (180, 7000, etc.) had Traction Booster and I'm sure the drawbar mounts were rigid. "Traction Booster" hitches from the early 70's used the three point hitch arms. Am I wrong?
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Posted By: Gary Burnett
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2018 at 7:40pm
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I hate having them loose, beating and banging around,cordless impact to loosen when necessary and then tighten back up. |
Posted By: Dusty MI
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2018 at 8:27pm
X-2 Dusty ------------- 917 H, '48 G, '65 D-10 series III "Allis Express" |
SteveM C/IL wrote:Posted By: DSeries4
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2018 at 8:47pm
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The pull point for the drawbar is the snap coupler bell, NOT the drawbar hanger. The purpose of the hanger is to keep the height of the drawbar. I use locknuts on the bolts so the drawbar has some back and forth slack. ------------- '49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080 |
Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2018 at 8:56pm
You will find that the clamp doesn't do the pulling.After much rough use,when you loosen the clamp,the drawbar will snap fwd from the spring load pull.You are indeed pulling from the front. Do as you wish. My bars aren't going to be flopping and banging.Just like you, ours have been this way for 50 yrs with no ill effect so apparently either works.
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Posted By: dawntreader74
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2018 at 10:10pm
| steve- i know you use wd tractors' never said anything about useing a draw bar for any snap-coupler tool. all i said was it can't make cents to me to lock down a draw bar if it has traction booster. it works on the tractor the same as the tools' after you remove the draw bar out of the bell an hook up your tool it all works the same right ? the man said the start with it was a WD45 he was working on. it should have traction-booster felt it should have some movement like others say. |
Posted By: Dave(inMA)
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2018 at 8:35am
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Yes - tractor indeed has the TB system, though I'm not sure that it activates when using the draw bar. I can see that being able to slide the cross bar can be helpful when engaging the slots in the arms. I wonder what the AC design guys had in mind back in the day! I gotta say that the SC hitch system is great for mounting implements like a plow.......not so much fun for mounting the draw bar.  Anyone got a good system for mounting the draw bar that takes the sting out of lifting and engaging the bar into the bell?Thanks for all the replies! ------------- WC, CA, D14, WD45 |
Posted By: littlemarv
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2018 at 9:05am
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The traction booster works by lifting the lift arms to transfer weight to the rear wheels. Not lift the implement out of the ground, just putting more pressure on the tires for traction. So when you are using the drawbar, what do you hook the lift arms to? I though traction booster was mostly for mounted implements, but I thought I saw a "traction booster drawbar", that had brackets and chains to connect to the implement? ------------- The mechanic always wins. B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H |
Posted By: Steve Bright
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2018 at 9:09am
| I was told at a very young age to tighten the bolts, Makes no sense to me to hear all that racket when they are loose, And why would you want the movement from a loose drawbar while pulling a wagon, baler, or any other pull type implement. My Dad worked for AC after WWII that is where I got my info. So I guess it comes down to personal preference |
Posted By: jiminnd
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2018 at 9:22am
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I have mine snug and double nutted. It can move just a slight amount so the pull is on the bell, not the support, it doesn't bang around but gives a little flexibility when hooking up. Also, they all had traction booster, just the early ones didn't have the gauge. ------------- 1945 C, 1949 WF and WD, 1981 185, 1982 8030, unknown D14(nonrunner) |
Posted By: Allis dave
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2018 at 10:32am
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It should be slightly loose. Like someone mentioned. The parts drawing shows a casle nut so it shouldn't be like. I have steel locknuts on mine. They are tight enough to not bang and shake, but loose enough to slide. It you ever adjust your drawbar height it has to slide a little to adjust.It's also not about using traction boost. It's that the drawbar is mounted to a spring. As the drawbar pulls hard and easy the drawbar constantly changes position. If you "pull it out and lock it down" then your spring is always under pressure and will distort. If you go to a tractor pull your drawbar will pull out way more than a usual pull. Your drawbar needs to move. If you had the old hand clutch kickout for plowing, you wouldn't be able to "Lock down" your drawbar or your clutch would be kicked out all the time. The time I tractor pulled I had to hold the clutch to keep it from kicking out. The drawbar probably moved 1-2" Do what you want, but being tight isn't how the engineers designed it. |
Posted By: Dave(inMA)
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2018 at 10:59am
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Thanks, Dave. Your explanation about varying load on the spring makes sense - and lays out what the design was intended to do. ------------- WC, CA, D14, WD45 |
Posted By: Don(MO)
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2018 at 1:48pm
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Pull out your WD45 tractor operators manual look on pages 27 and then on page 34 under "Snap Coupler" then read what's in there. Then do the same thing in the WD operators manual. If you don't have operators manuals on your tractor/tractors and implements them please get one, there's lots of good reading in them. On a "WD" that has been updated to the "Snap Coupler" them go with the WD45 INFO.
------------- 3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep. |
Posted By: PaulB
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2018 at 5:01pm
What piece of DRAWBAR equipment are you pulling that uses the traction booster? The traction booster works with mounted and semi mounted implements. For any PTO use the Drawbar should be clamped tight to give better control of the Baler, Combine, ect. ------------- If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere. Real pullers don't have speed limits. If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY |
Posted By: Tracy Martin TN
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2018 at 5:53pm
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When pulling wheel disc, if bolts are tight and the jerking pulls drawbar out, the disc will raise but can't fall back. Bolts are best loose enough for easy slide . HTH Tracy ------------- No greater gift than healthy grandkids! |
Posted By: Dave(inMA)
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2018 at 6:32pm
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Thanks, Don and Tracy. I've now read the manual as suggested - dumb me for not trying that first! And interesting that the manual says both tightened and loose are right, the answer depending on how the hydraulic pump controls are set. That said, would you set the pump for weight transfer for participating in a tractor pull (clamp loose), or set it otherwise (clamp tight)? Or do the pump settings not matter for pulling a heavy draw bar load? It'd be great if TB worked at a tractor pull!! ------------- WC, CA, D14, WD45 |
Posted By: Tracy Martin TN
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2018 at 7:33pm
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Dave, in all honesty, DrAllis is the one that pointed this out to me on my D15. He is a wealth of knowledge! Thanks Tracy ------------- No greater gift than healthy grandkids! |
Posted By: Dave(inMA)
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2018 at 7:42pm
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Indeed he is - as are many on here!! Dave ------------- WC, CA, D14, WD45 |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2018 at 8:53pm
Lifting the arms up wouldn't do a damn thing, at a tractor pull... I watched an idiot hook to the sled with a d-17(4), with the hitch point being a 3 point hitch drawbar... A wild ride ensued as the TB kicked in, both the arms came up, then the front end, as the weight transferred to the rear. Damn meth head girl almost flipped the tractor...
 |
Posted By: dawntreader74
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2018 at 11:04pm
| talking about tractor pull' if you start the pull with the arm's down when you get done pulling the traction-booster' if it works will lift the arms all the way up 9 times out of 10 at the end of the track you will be putting them back down. the draw bar has to be working with the traction-boost or it would not lift the arms on it's own under a hard pull.stock draw-bar; same as the man has in the first picture. |
Posted By: Gary Burnett
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2018 at 12:16am
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Any tractor pull I have been in if the tractor is using a 3pt draw bar its has to have stabilizers to hold the arms and draw bar at a certain height. Usually at 20 inch maximum. |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2018 at 4:37am
Can't remember whether it was an exhibition pull or what. Think it appeared in the stock antique class of the pull. I know the thieving, lying, meth head in question, and his loser GF... He aint been back, after that pull...
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Posted By: WF owner
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2018 at 6:39am
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Traction booster does not work with the drawbar unless it is somehow connected to the hydraulic arms. I think some are confusing the tractors equipped with a spring on the snap coupler bell with traction booster. Not all AC tractors had the spring on the snap coupler bell. Actually most did not have the spring. Here are a couple pictures I found of traction booster drawbars. The snap coupler one is currently for sale on Ebay. Only with one of these hitches installed will the traction booster work, using a drawbar pulled implement, unless you are using an implement that is mounted to the hydraulic arms. Three point hitch traction booster drawbar  Snap coupler model (which I never knew existed before) 
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Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2018 at 7:00am
| All Traction Booster systems had a "spring" of some kind in them. The snap-coupler design actually used a big coil spring. The 3-point hitches used what is called a "torsion bar" spring. it is a shaft that is anchored to the frame and gets twisted when under a pull allowing the lower draft arms to activate the linkage to the traction booster system. A-C never used the top link compression like little Fords do. They always used the pulling arms. That way pull-type implements could benefit from the weight transfer system. |
Posted By: Harvey/pa
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2018 at 11:05am
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[QUOTE=Dave(inMA) I gotta say that the SC hitch system is great for mounting implements like a plow.......not so much fun for mounting the draw bar. Anyone got a good system for mounting the draw bar that takes the sting out of lifting and engaging the bar into the bell?Thanks for all the replies! Used to lift now I balance the drawbar on my floorjack, roll it under, jack it to the right height and push! lots easier on my aching back HTH...Harvey
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Posted By: Dave(inMA)
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2018 at 11:24am
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Whew! Interesting stories and information. But I am unclear about whether TB comes into play when pulling a load. My tractor is equipped with the 'standard draw bar' shown on p27 of the Operator's Manual. The hydraulic lift arms are not used in this situation - the draw bar unit is locked in place - the ends of the draw bar arms hook on pins up under the tractor and the arms are pinned to the multi-hole plates which in turn are bolted to the tractor. With a load applied to the draw bar, it can slide in either direction (toward front/rear of tractor) as long as the clamp bolts are loose enough to allow this. So....with a load (ex: weight sled) attached to the draw bar, I'm reading the posts and the manual to say that TB will come into play as long as the pump settings are correct and the draw bar can move back and forth. Is this correct? Also, the lift arms may raise or lower but this doesn't apply to or remove from the load any lifting force. Also correct? Thanks very much! Dave ------------- WC, CA, D14, WD45 |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2018 at 12:05pm
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Here's what I use as a drawbar. It's my homemade SCcarryall with 2"
receiver. I use forklift forks for the carrying, slide a balless sleeve
in to use as a drawbar. I've got 3 real drawbars collecting dust around
here for the past 15 years sinc eI made this. uploads/351/sccarryall.JPG" rel="nofollow - uploads/351/sccarryall.JPG ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2018 at 12:06pm
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Here's what I use as a drawbar. It's my homemade SCcarryall with 2"
receiver. I use forklift forks for the carrying, slide a balless sleeve
in to use as a drawbar. I've got 3 real drawbars collecting dust around
here for the past 15 years since I made this.  ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: FloydKS
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2018 at 3:53pm
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I never imagined that something that could have a "screw loose" aaaaaaa (bolt or two) could cause such an exciting post. ------------- Holding a grudge is like taking poison and expecting the other person to die |
Posted By: Don(MO)
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2018 at 4:10pm
Looks like cabin fever is kicking in.  ------------- 3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep. |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2018 at 5:28pm
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I know how to generate even more replies... What kind of oil is best to dribble on the drawbar, sos it slides easily, while in traction booster mode, regular or synthetic???
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Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2018 at 5:32pm
JD tractors are 'self-lubricating' !! ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: TimNearFortWorth
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2018 at 7:04am
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Slight leak on pto seal or hyd outlet block usually dribbles down nicely on my drawbars . . . . As for handling the drawbar assy., picked up an aluminum bread cart some years back outside a curio shop I was driving by in South TX that had a bunch of restaurant equipment. Thought of it for moving stuff around the shop but soon realized the low height was perfect for install/removal as well as storing SC drawbars on D-Seiers. 12-14" 4x4 up frontputs drawbar eye at just the right height, also on the OEM 3-pt. adaptor. 20-24" 4x4 near the back of the cart supports either hitch for dropping/install and storage and 3-pt. adaptor arms fold down inward just right. Sure is a back saver and wheeled wherever you want it in the shop, can swap out hitches in just a couple minutes. I'm way past the age of "slinging" the SC hitches under tractors anymore.
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Posted By: Ted J
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2018 at 11:36am
https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/slinging-the-drawbar_topic56506.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/slinging-the-drawbar_topic56506.html ------------- "Allis-Express" 19?? WC / 1941 C / 1952 CA / 1956 WD45 / 1957 WD45 / 1958 D-17 |
Posted By: Dave(inMA)
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2018 at 11:52am
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I'll keep my eyes open for used restaurant equipment! Sound like a great solution. So's the floor jack - in my case I was outside on gravel - next time I'll move her inside onto concrete. Dave ------------- WC, CA, D14, WD45 |
Posted By: TimNearFortWorth
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2018 at 3:14pm
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Dave or anyone else interested, PM me and I can send a pic of the cart I use via e-mail. The wheels on the cart I have are large enough to use it outside also. Picking up a new battery at Wally World a while back and asked what they did with the used carts (both regular shopping, steel and aluminum stocking type) as seen some at rear of store near the automotive bays. Manager advised they were put out back until they had someone pick them up for repair if possible. If repair cost more than they deemed worth it, they scrapped em' and yes, they would let them go.
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