Electrolysis tutorial
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=140734
Printed Date: 29 Apr 2025 at 9:30am
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Topic: Electrolysis tutorial
Posted By: littlemarv
Subject: Electrolysis tutorial
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2017 at 10:32pm
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I'm going to try to clean the inside of the gas tank on my WC with electrolysis. Someone explained it to me briefly but I forgot what you put in with the water. My plan is to: Put a brass pipe plug in the bottom of the tank, and attach the negative lead of my trickle charger to that. Then, stick the sacrificial rod in through the filler neck, and insulate it so it doesn't touch the tank. Clip the red lead on there, and change the solution every day? So, I guess my questions are, does that sound right, and how much of what do I mix in with the water? I think the tank is 15 gallons. Thanks in advance. ------------- The mechanic always wins. B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H |
Replies:
Posted By: Dipstick In
Date Posted: 24 Jul 2017 at 12:50am
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Washing soda is what you want and you can find it in the soap section of many of the grocery stores, including Wallworld. I'm gonna guess a cup or two in fifteen gallons of water,,,,,,,, and as far as draining/changing, I think I would just "float" the gunk and crap off, and keep charging it. ------------- You don't really have to be smart if you know who is! |
Posted By: JoeM(GA)
Date Posted: 24 Jul 2017 at 6:09am
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One tablespoon washing soda per gallon, check and clean anode as needed to keep reaction going ------------- Allis Express North Georgia 41 WC,48 UC Cane,7-G's, Ford 345C TLB |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 24 Jul 2017 at 6:18am
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the big problem is that the closest tank area will get cleaned. Think 'line of sight', 'shortest distance'. You'll have to get 'creative' to locate the sacrificail rod to get all of the tank. Also be sure it's secure ! You don't want it to 'wiggle' loose overnight. It'll be a bit of a pain cause you have to disassemble it, drain it to see how you're doing but it should work.... Please post pictures if you can... ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: Allis dave
Date Posted: 24 Jul 2017 at 7:07am
| Even through the closest areas will clean first, all other areas will still clean. Just a little slower. should be easy since there are no baffles. I clean a 110 gallon transfer tank the same way a couple years ago! |
Posted By: WF owner
Date Posted: 24 Jul 2017 at 7:47am
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I use this link as my guide. I've tried both solutions and I seem to have better luck using lye. http://www.fboerger.com/restorationtips.html#electrolysis" rel="nofollow - http://www.fboerger.com/restorationtips.html#electrolysis As far as changing the solution, I've "strained" mine (through an old towel) a few times, but I've been using the same solution for about 3 years.
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Posted By: littlemarv
Date Posted: 24 Jul 2017 at 8:55am
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Thanks for the info. I planned on making a few "L" shaped rods to get to both ends a little better. Just like last year, going to Hutch and drooling over all those perfect tractors gives me the kick in the pants I needed. Time to finish up the WC! Just need to change the big seals on the rear wheels, clean out the tank, and once (if) we get some weather where it stays above 60° at night, up goes the portable paint booth! ------------- The mechanic always wins. B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H |
Posted By: Dave H
Date Posted: 24 Jul 2017 at 9:14am
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Lye and that washing powder is darn near impossible to find in these parts. Not to fret though. Took me 10 years to learn this but the swimming pool stuff, think is was called sodium carbonate, worked better than anything for me. I think the key is adding enough stuff until you are satisfied with the electrical flow as evidenced by bubbles produced. I also think that Rip VanWinkle will wake up before that "trickle charger" gets the job done. I always hooked my stuff up to a 10 amp smart charger and added enough stuff to get the charge up to around 6 amps. Maybe you would want less on your tank. have fun. |
Posted By: WF owner
Date Posted: 24 Jul 2017 at 10:06am
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I was able to find Lye at y local True Value hardware store. (No luck at Lowes or Home Depot.) I just found this at Amazon.com https://www.amazon.com/Rooto-1030-Corp-Drain-Cleaner/dp/B000PSFPRK/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&qid=1500908619&sr=8-13&keywords=lye" rel="nofollow - https://www.amazon.com/Rooto-1030-Corp-Drain-Cleaner/dp/B000PSFPRK/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&qid=1500908619&sr=8-13&keywords=lye
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Posted By: Sugarmaker
Date Posted: 24 Jul 2017 at 10:52am
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Have done two WD gas tanks this way. I find Arm and Hammer Washing soda at Walmart. Bottom shelf stuff, not in high demand. I would probable use 1/2 cup inside a gas tank filled with water. I like this stuff because its safe. I use a heavy duty battery charger set at 2 amp. Its hooked to a 12 volt battery and then another set of leads with clips to the cleaning item. I had my gas tanks submerged and cleaned the outside at the same time.:) I think I used a piece of 3/4 dia steel rod suspended inside and insulated from the tank. I have parts cleaning in the E-tank now for the 1952 IH TD6 dozer project. Regards, Chris ------------- D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet. |
Posted By: littlemarv
Date Posted: 24 Jul 2017 at 1:32pm
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All I have is a trickle charger- I thought that's what you used. Is that not enough? ------------- The mechanic always wins. B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 24 Jul 2017 at 3:37pm
| Sand blast and power wash it out afterwards. Done several that way with excellent results. |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 24 Jul 2017 at 3:46pm
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a trickle charger is less than an amp... that would take a month of soaking.. Your better off with a 10 amp charger that will put out 4-6 amps constant.......... for the sacrificial rod, more surface area is better... sometimes a 1 inch strap 1/4 inch thick is better than a 1/2 inch rod. ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: Roscoe62
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2017 at 5:02am
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Ditto on the 6 amp charger. And as someone mentioned above, if the charger is one of those new "smart" (aka dumb) chargers, you must put a battery in parallel, or the smart charger will not put out any current!
- Roscoe |
Posted By: littlemarv
Date Posted: 22 Aug 2017 at 9:42pm
O.K, here we go. Made a sacrificial rod out of a mudflap hanger, wrapped in an inner tube and piece of silicone hose to insulate it from the tank, and gently inserted into the receiver hitch of my truck and jumped up and down on until it is precisely the right shape for maximum cleaning action (or something like that) I figure I will do each end of the tank for a day or two, then put the rod straight down for a day or two.   Dumped in two cups of washing soda and filled it with water.   Hooked up my jumper cables, neg to the pipe plug in the bottom of the tank, pos to the rod, put a battery inbetween the tank and charger. Set the charger on 30 amps as that's as low as it goes. Seems to settle in at a little less than 10 amps.  I guess in the back of my mind, I thought the water would start boiling and crap would come flying out as soon as I hooked it up, but I guess its not that quick. After a half hour, the crud started showing up.  After a couple hours, really started looking yucky in there...  So, how do I keep this going? Do I keep adding water? Do I change the solution daily, or shove the hose in the tank and flush it out the top till it runs clear, or drain and rinse, I don't know. ------------- The mechanic always wins. B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H |
Posted By: JoeM(GA)
Date Posted: 22 Aug 2017 at 10:02pm
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when the bubbling slows, remove and clean your anode and put it back in. Honestly, with a tank like these I wouldn't even bother moving the anode around unless you just want to. There are no baffles to block the line of site, so it will all get reached in the end. I use the same fluid for several months. Just pour it out into a bucket if you want to look at the progress and then pour it right back in. ------------- Allis Express North Georgia 41 WC,48 UC Cane,7-G's, Ford 345C TLB |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 22 Aug 2017 at 10:10pm
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I remove the rod every day and scrap off the built up crud on the rod so you can see the steel again......... add a quart of water to flush the floating crud out the top........ reinstall the rod and go another day.. ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: Jacob (WI,ND)
Date Posted: 22 Aug 2017 at 10:16pm
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So what is the trick to do a tank with baffles then? ------------- Jacob Swanson 1920 6-12; 1925,1926 20-35 longfenders; 1925,1926 15-25's; 1927,1929 20-35 shortfenders; C; B's; IB; WC's; WD; WD45 |
Posted By: JoeM(GA)
Date Posted: 22 Aug 2017 at 10:47pm
then you get to bend your anode into what ever shape will get you a line of site to all surfaces without touching the tank wall, might take a couple of moves of the anode to get it all satisfactorily. ------------- Allis Express North Georgia 41 WC,48 UC Cane,7-G's, Ford 345C TLB |
Jacob (WI,ND) wrote:Posted By: Sugarmaker
Date Posted: 23 Aug 2017 at 12:25pm
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Looks like a nice set up for your tank. When done (my guess would be several days) Then drain and rinse the inside of the tank the best you can. If you could scrub the inside of the tank that would be great too. Maybe rolling the tank with objects in it could work too. Rinse again and you should be good to go. Regards, Chris ------------- D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet. |
Posted By: littlemarv
Date Posted: 23 Aug 2017 at 3:16pm
So here it is after about 20 hours.  I am starting to grasp how this process works. I thought the junk would be floating it the water and you needed to change it to keep it working. But the crud is attached to the rod, so you can just scrape it and keep going. So I scraped and sanded the rod back to bare metal, flushed a little water out the top of the tank, dumped in a snort of washing soda to make up for some being flushed out, and let it go again. So that's why someone up above said more surface area is better. More surface for the crud to attach itself to. Unfortunately, I am limited by the size of the filler neck. Unfortunately, I think pulling the rod tight to hold it is exposing the reason there is epoxy around the filler neck...... something else to fix.  My current plan is, another day on this side of the tank, then tomorrow night change the water and flip the tank around, two days of that, then on Sunday just put the rod straight down into the tank and one day of that. We will see. ------------- The mechanic always wins. B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H |
Posted By: littlemarv
Date Posted: 23 Aug 2017 at 4:28pm
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So if the crud collects on the rod, can I speed up the process by cleaning the rod more often? ------------- The mechanic always wins. B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 23 Aug 2017 at 4:34pm
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that might help a little... as the rod gets coated with crud, you should see the amp gauge drop off.. Your gauge is BIG... I have one that goes to 12 amps... it cleans at 8 amps. When the power drops off to 5 amps its time to clean the rod. ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: Sugarmaker
Date Posted: 24 Aug 2017 at 8:05am
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Not sure that you will get any improvement by doing the other side of the tank? This rod should be cleaning the entire inside. It wont hurt to try to move the rod to another position. The process will try to keep cleaning. And we all know that some of these tanks can be really rusty inside. Looks like your gathering a lot of crud, so its working pretty well. Regards, Chris ------------- D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet. |
Posted By: littlemarv
Date Posted: 24 Aug 2017 at 3:38pm
Another days worth of nastiness. Time to drain, rinse, and flip the tank around. I see what you guys mean about just skimming the crud off the top, most of the water in the tank came out clean. Oh well, I only have a couple bucks in the washing soda. Hmmmmm, I wonder if the wand for spraying out the black tank on the camper will fit in the tank? That would work sweet.  Oh heck yeah.  Before  Now  Quite a difference! So, I sanded the rod again and spun the tank around. Filled it back up, and let her go again. I think I will patch the crack on the filler neck, and try and clean the filler neck out as well, as long as I'm at it. It does eat up the rod a little.  I am pretty much sold on this process. It is really neat, and cheap! ------------- The mechanic always wins. B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H |
Posted By: Sugarmaker
Date Posted: 24 Aug 2017 at 4:28pm
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marv, It will eventually eat the rod up as you mentioned. (would take a long time. The steel plates I took out of my tank fell apart and what didn't looked like Swiss cheese! Your doing good. I like the fact that it works when I am doing something else too. Now you will need to build a E-tank for doing the exterior of items too. The inside of the gas tank looks better and using the camper nozzle is a great idea. Regards, Chris ------------- D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet. |
Posted By: JoeM(GA)
Date Posted: 24 Aug 2017 at 5:50pm
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Marv, I used wood wedges on both sides of my bar to keep it in the middle of the neck, might not work with a bar as heavy as that flap bracket ------------- Allis Express North Georgia 41 WC,48 UC Cane,7-G's, Ford 345C TLB |
Posted By: littlemarv
Date Posted: 25 Aug 2017 at 2:50pm
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So, on day 3, there is more gunk on the rod than ever. How do I know when this process is "done"? Do you go by the cleanliness of the rod? I was just going to run it through Sunday and call it good, the portion I can see sure looks good, but there is still a lot of crud coming out, probably from the top of the tank, where all the condensation hangs? ------------- The mechanic always wins. B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H |
Posted By: JoeM(GA)
Date Posted: 25 Aug 2017 at 4:36pm
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Marv, you just have to judge from the looks and I usually consider that when I get little to no reaction i.e. Bubbles etc When the cleaned rod is put back in that it's done all it's gonna do ------------- Allis Express North Georgia 41 WC,48 UC Cane,7-G's, Ford 345C TLB |
Posted By: Sugarmaker
Date Posted: 25 Aug 2017 at 8:44pm
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I would say from a time stand point that you should be done. I have cleaned some parts 4 hours and they are good. Other parts 24 to 36 hrs. Not much over that. The cleaned surface gets a black soot on it. The inside of the tank will be hard to get that off. On exterior parts I usually wire brush and rinse and brush some more and rinse. You may only be able to rinse unless you use some type of media inside that you can remove? Regards, Chris ------------- D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet. |
Posted By: Ted J
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2017 at 6:05pm
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When you get that one done Ryan, I've got a couple that need doing. LOL As far as I know, the neck is soldered in. I doubt they make an epoxy that will withstand gasoline. I've been looking for a BIG solder iron that I can heat up with my torch and do a couple of these. Haven't found anything as yet.... ------------- "Allis-Express" 19?? WC / 1941 C / 1952 CA / 1956 WD45 / 1957 WD45 / 1958 D-17 |
Posted By: littlemarv
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2017 at 8:51pm
Well, the rod came out pretty clean today, I had it straight down into the tank.  There does seem to be a little bit of black scale in the tank now. So, I drained it out, rinsed it several times, dropped in a piece of chain, rolled it around, and rinsed it three more times. Now how do I get the water out so it doesn't rust right back up? If only I had a boot dryer, a funnel, two folding chairs, and two blocks of wood! Oh wait. I do.  ------------- The mechanic always wins. B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H |
Posted By: rustydollar
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2017 at 9:02pm
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Can't find washing soda make your own from baking soda. [TUBE]S7U_eW0Jt0k[/TUBE] |
Posted By: Sugarmaker
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2017 at 8:46am
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Marv, Yep looks of the rod, your done. Maybe a pint of light oil in the tank rolled around would keep the rust at bay? Nice set up getting it dry inside! Regards, Chris ------------- D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet. |
Posted By: theropod
Date Posted: 09 Oct 2017 at 2:25pm
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All I can is this process just works. In my case electrolysis made my rust filled AC-B tank as clean as a whistle. I did tumble that tank for two hours and knocked most of the rust free that way, but putting the electricity to work paid off in spades. I am currently attacking the old Zeinth carb in the same way without tumbling, and it is getting really clean really fast. The jets are "welded" in place, and hopefully the electrolysis won't eat them up before the rust. From what I have read the brass jets should be ok. Either way the rust had to go or the carb is useless. Below is a link to a couple YouTube videos I posted to document what I did with the tank. Here is the tumbling process and worked like a charm. I would use small nuts or steel BB's had I to do it all again. Digging those nails and screws out with a magnet was frustrating. If I had used smaller abrasive bits they could have been flushed out the drain opening: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ami7tCdOgCA" rel="nofollow - http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ami7tCdOgCA Here is the electrolysis from start to finish, which totalled about 16 hours of "cooking": http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rs0ua7CggDk" rel="nofollow - http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rs0ua7CggDk Roger
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Posted By: JoeM(GA)
Date Posted: 09 Oct 2017 at 2:50pm
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it will eat brass and copper ------------- Allis Express North Georgia 41 WC,48 UC Cane,7-G's, Ford 345C TLB |
Posted By: rustydollar
Date Posted: 09 Oct 2017 at 2:52pm
Thanks for posting this Rodger. |
Posted By: HoughMade
Date Posted: 09 Oct 2017 at 2:54pm
Washing soda is preferred, but I used straight baking soda to clean a "B" manifold a couple of weeks ago and it worked fine. ------------- 1951 B |
Posted By: theropod
Date Posted: 09 Oct 2017 at 4:55pm
I went and pulled it from the bucket, and if the brass was damaged I couldn't see it. A coat of old gas varnish probably protected it. The rust was gone, so it worked out, maybe. The old carb may need replacing despite, or because of, my efforts. Roger
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Posted By: rustydollar
Date Posted: 09 Oct 2017 at 5:01pm
If the carburetor is made from die-cast which most are, the zinc would be attacked first then the brass which is an alloy of copper and zinc. |
Posted By: allischalmerguy
Date Posted: 09 Oct 2017 at 5:54pm
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Thanks for sharing all this LittleMarv! ------------- It is great being a disciple of Jesus! 1950 WD, 1957 D17...retired in Iowa, |
Posted By: theropod
Date Posted: 09 Oct 2017 at 6:22pm
The Zeinth carb in question here is a cast iron job, model 6705. A magnet sticks to it strongly, and inside it was rusty everywhere. A little dressing up with the dremel and a small burr took care of the little rust remaining after a 6 hour electrolysis session. The two jets only accessible from the inside was all the non ferrous metal remaining. I have searched the net for hours looking for replacements for both of them, and had no luck. As far as I can tell those brass parts were not effected in any way. Roger |
Posted By: Ted J
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2017 at 9:16am
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Who says "You can't teach and old dog new tricks" ? I learned!! Thanks for posting this!! ------------- "Allis-Express" 19?? WC / 1941 C / 1952 CA / 1956 WD45 / 1957 WD45 / 1958 D-17 |