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Electrolysys explained

Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=133392
Printed Date: 08 Jun 2025 at 4:49pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Electrolysys explained
Posted By: AllisFreak MN
Subject: Electrolysys explained
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2017 at 4:43pm
What exactly happens in an engine to cause electrolysis? Does it only happen in diesels or can it happen is gas engines too?

I don't have it (that I'm aware of) in my tractor family yet but would like to know more about it to try to prevent it. Are there signs to look for to catch it in the early stages to prevent major damage? I have a 433T diesel with no coolant filter and am not the first owner of the tractor, so don't have the history of coolant maintenance.

Do the gassers need to be tested too?

Thanks.

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'49 A-C WD, '51 A-C WD, '63 A-C D17 Series III, 1968 A-C One-Seventy, '82 A-C 6060, '75 A-C 7040, A-C #3 sickle mower, 2 A-C 701 wagons, '78 Gleaner M2



Replies:
Posted By: DougS
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2017 at 4:45pm
Electrolysis or cavitation?


Posted By: AllisFreak MN
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2017 at 5:38pm
Both I guess. I thought they were one and the same.

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'49 A-C WD, '51 A-C WD, '63 A-C D17 Series III, 1968 A-C One-Seventy, '82 A-C 6060, '75 A-C 7040, A-C #3 sickle mower, 2 A-C 701 wagons, '78 Gleaner M2


Posted By: Charlie175
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2017 at 5:40pm
cavitation is the popping of bubbles at high speed on the surface of the sleeves. This erodes a hole in the sleeve

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Charlie

'48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD


Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2017 at 5:47pm
electrolysis is the movement of material from one place to another using electrical current to move it. one use... remove rust from old steel parts like fenders and such...another is to break water down into hydrogen and oxygen(cars CAN run on water !) BTW ANY time you have two different metals touching each other and a conductive fluid(like salt water) you will have electrolysis and one of the metals will get 'eaten' away.How bad and how fast depend upon the metals and how strong the fluid is.

cavitation is 'bubbles in a liquid'. bad news in hydraulic systems, as it'll destroy pumps in short order. One 'cure' is to have a tank( the reservoir) to be at LEAST 2X ths GPM of the pump AND have baffles to reduce 'bubbles' getting into the oil.




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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)

Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water


Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2017 at 5:48pm
Oh, and I thought electrolysis was removal of unwanted hair.  My bad...Wink


Posted By: DougS
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2017 at 6:47pm
Originally posted by DiyDave DiyDave wrote:

Oh, and I thought electrolysis was removal of unwanted hair.  My bad...Wink

That's called "getting old."


Posted By: DougG
Date Posted: 05 Jan 2017 at 5:28am
I think the big problem was in 301 diesels for some reason, never heard of it happening in a 433,thinking they may have added it for precautionary measure


Posted By: LeonR2013
Date Posted: 05 Jan 2017 at 6:20am
If you test your water and keep the PH balance good you'll probably never have a problem with your liners.


Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 05 Jan 2017 at 7:05am
Originally posted by DougS DougS wrote:

Originally posted by DiyDave DiyDave wrote:

Oh, and I thought electrolysis was removal of unwanted hair.  My bad...Wink

That's called "getting old."
Well I want the hair on my head but what is disappearing from there is reappearing in other places.


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Wink
I am a Russian Bot


Posted By: tbran
Date Posted: 05 Jan 2017 at 1:52pm
doesn't matter what one calls it - it results in pin holes in the sleeves of wet sleeve engines and also metal erosion in the oring lands and block that allows coolant into the oil.
Perfect 7 ph  will almost eliminate , but not quite.  The higher the hp and more rpms taken out of a given block the faster the failure occurs.  Sleeve movement is the guilty culprit. As a side note, SISU is one the FEW if not the only engine I know of that has a MID sleeve mount that stabilizes the sleeve.  Cavitation erosion  or electrolysis  seldom occurs in these engines.    We see more issues in 7020's than any Allis engines as a percent to sales.  There are also machine tolerances to contend with as well. If one gets a max size bore and a min size sleeve - the issue is more likely to occur.  Ph test kits, coolant conditioners/'filters' and coolant change can help prevent this issue. 


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When told "it's not the money,it's the principle", remember, it's always the money..


Posted By: BigBadAllis
Date Posted: 05 Jan 2017 at 2:21pm
As stated a preventative measure is to keep up on your coolant.  Modern HD coolant can be tested for the SCA's (supplemental coolant additives) typically adds nitrites to the coolant to prevent the bubbles that implode tearing off chunks of metal.  


Posted By: JPG AUSTRALIA
Date Posted: 05 Jan 2017 at 4:28pm
8.3 cummins has mid mounted sleeves also


Posted By: pirlbeck
Date Posted: 05 Jan 2017 at 8:22pm
From the Baldwin farm filter guide book.

HOW DO SCAs PREVENT LINER PITTING? Cylinder liner perforation is a common cause of premature failure in unprotected engines. Liner pitting occurs as collapsing air bubbles in the coolant scour away at the unprotected outer surface of the liner. Estimates show that these imploding bubbles can generate pressures in excess of 60,000 PSI at the surface of the liner wall. If left unchecked, complete perforation of the liner is likely.

Technically, this scouring process is known as cavitation erosion. While it can appear anywhere on the cylinder liner, most pitting occurs as a narrow vertical band, perpendicular to the axis of the crankshaft. A secondary band may be found on the opposite side of the liner. The air bubbles are primarily the result of vibration of the liner wall as the piston travels up and down in the cylinder bore. Therefore, any change in the design of the engine which increases the vibration of the liner (such as thinner cylinder walls, longer sleeves or poor mechanical fit) will increase the potential for liner perforation. To combat the effect of cavitation erosion, all heavy-duty engine manufacturers recommend the use of SCAs. The SCAs coat the liner walls with a hard oxide film that acts as a barrier between the liner wall and the collapsing air bubbles, but does not significantly impede heat transfer. While the SCAs cannot prevent the formation or collapse of the bubbles, the oxide film is thick enough to keep the bubbles away from the liner surface, thus effectively preventing pitting of the liners.




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