What's in your oil or what's not in there.
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Topic: What's in your oil or what's not in there.
Posted By: Don(MO)
Subject: What's in your oil or what's not in there.
Date Posted: 29 Dec 2016 at 4:42pm
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I read a post below that said something about Pennzoil is not good oil today and I thought I'd post a heads-up on today's oil and what's not it now, I'm not going to pick on one brand of oil but remember when Pennzoil had Z-7 on the front of the cans of oil, do you know what Z-7 was? for the guys that don't it was the zinc that was in oil to help flat tappet cams turn the lifters, and today thanks to the EPA they removed the zinc from oils build and all engines built today they use roller lifters and they don't turn like the oil flat lifers do. I'm not going to tell you what to put in your older engines, I'm saying to read-up on oils and what has zinc in your oil today. I had a good talk with my camshaft re-builder about the number of cam's that are wore out today and he said the new oils don't have zinc in them now and was firm not to just add a bottle zinc to your oil and he will not warranty a reground cam if it's not using the right oil to lube it. Again I'm not telling you what to do. And I'm not picking on "Pennzoil" just used it to show what was in the older oils back in the day. Please read the oil you are going to buy and look for the word "ZINC" on it. ------------- 3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep. |
Replies:
Posted By: DougS
Date Posted: 29 Dec 2016 at 6:06pm
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And you'll be replacing the catalytic converter in your car within a year. |
Posted By: B26240
Date Posted: 29 Dec 2016 at 6:25pm
| Don Thanks for the info, do you think we should be adding something to the oil in our old tractors? I have one with a reground cam and would sleep better if I thot it was properly lubed. Thanks Mark |
Posted By: eighty nine
Date Posted: 29 Dec 2016 at 6:32pm
| Good point on the no zinc. I think alot of the 15-40 diesel oils still contain some zinc. (Rotella states 1300ppm). We use that type oil in all of our older motors, gas & diesel both. |
Posted By: Calvin Schmidt
Date Posted: 29 Dec 2016 at 6:45pm
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My understanding was that the low zinc oils were mainly a problem for newly rebuilt flat tappet cam engines. This was a hot topic on the 'Hot Rod Power Tour' in 2007. I'm a Long Hauler running the full 7 days with the '69 Judge. ------------- Nothing is impossible if it is properly financed |
Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 29 Dec 2016 at 6:47pm
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Diesel oil can have zinc additive because the cam driven injectors need it. And diesel engines don't use catalytic converters. Gerald J. |
Posted By: littlemarv
Date Posted: 29 Dec 2016 at 8:10pm
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I've been told Shell Rotella 15-40 is the way to go. ------------- The mechanic always wins. B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H |
Posted By: littlemarv
Date Posted: 29 Dec 2016 at 8:16pm
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I've been told Shell Rotella 15-40 is the way to go. ------------- The mechanic always wins. B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H |
Posted By: Dave H
Date Posted: 29 Dec 2016 at 9:37pm
Hey whoah there my ole 99 power stroke had a cat on it. |
Gerald J. wrote:Posted By: Don(MO)
Date Posted: 29 Dec 2016 at 10:23pm
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Now hold on guys I'm not saying what to use for oil, I'm just saying look at what you have been using and read what's it now has in it. I have been seeing more flat cams and cupped lifter faces in old tractor engines then ever and some of them are so bad they will not regrind and most of the older cams are hard to get and the costs are out the roof if you do find a new one. It's hard to tell the owner of a 30+ year old tractor to buy some of the high dollar oils out there to just sit in an engine not being used daily. Oils have been changing over the last 5 years and look at the Shell Rotella, I have been using it for years and it's been good for me, now Rotella T is blended in 6 diff mixes (I not talking about the weight) I'm not picking on Rotella oil, I'm saying just look at what you pick-up at the store now it might not be the same oil you got last time you picked it up. The old saying "oil is oil it comes out of the ground" is not going to save your older engines now. It's not what blend or who's mane is on the can, it's what's inside. I have gone back to using 30# break-in oil for rebuilds and have always used "CAT" cam lube on cams lobs and lifter faces. My cam re-builder said the zinc additive in a can will not mix in the oil so I'm not going that way now just using break-in oil for start-up and short run-in's and changing to a good oil that owners can find local. I'm not going to say what you need to use, I'm not in oil sales. So you make the call on what go's inside your engines. lol ------------- 3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep. |
Posted By: LeonR2013
Date Posted: 29 Dec 2016 at 10:26pm
| I've been told that Rotella T is not the way to go. I've always used and had success with Rotell T but I wonder. It was suggested to me to use oil with the car manufactures name on the jug plus their filters because the manufactures know what their engines need as far as lubrication and filtration is concerned. I do use Lucas with each change now. |
Posted By: LaJaMe
Date Posted: 29 Dec 2016 at 10:44pm
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Could not resist putting in my 2 cents. Some years back, I had an argument with some one on what oil was good. Should have never done that, but . Don't know much about what is in the different oils, but I currently have 2 vehicles and others in the past that have gone 200,000 miles with no oil related problems. Currently change oil at 5 to 6,000 miles. I have been using Penzoil for at about 50 years. NO PROBLEMS. Going to continue. |
Posted By: Fred in Pa
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2016 at 6:28am
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If all else fails , READ the PRINT ------------- He who dies with the most toys is, nonetheless ,still dead. If all else fails ,Read all that is PRINTED. |
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2016 at 6:37am
 ------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: DougS
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2016 at 6:50am
Virtually all new smaller (automotive-sized) diesels do anymore. Use the API grade of oil your manufacturer specifies. I've always felt that "something better" isn't. If you want to go with a higher grade of oil, within that API spec, be my guest. Switching to synthetics is a good example of this. |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2016 at 6:53am
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I think many miss the point. The argument is NOT what oil is good to put in your car that is 0- 20 years old.. ALL of the NEW OILS meet the NEW CAR SPEC.. Don't matter if you use Pennzoil, Mobil, or Wal Mart.. they are all GREAT for newer cars. What DON is talking about is OLDER tractors and cars from the 1930- 1970 era. The new oils are FAR SUPERIOR to older oils, EXCEPT for the zinc addative that was for cam shafts of the old design. Many believe the newer oils without zinc are not a good idea for older motors. Personally I use Mobil 10-w30 in the older tractors and have no problem... BUT I only use them 50- 100 hours a year. If I was farming with them or using heavy loaded on a daily basis I might be more concerned. Right now, I am NOT.------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: BigBadAllis
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2016 at 7:42am
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Oil threads always generate a lot of opinions and create hard feelings. For current model engines, it's plain and simple. Use an oil that meets the manufacturers specifications. Use a good nationally branded oil like Mobil, Shell, Chevron etc. There's some decent boutique oils like Amsoil, Royal Purple, Schaeffer's etc. Stay away from cheap oil blenders and off name oils. As far as higher zinc levels for older flat tappet engines, you can get properly blended and formulated oil with higher levels of zinc. Typically they are marketed to the race market since they don't have cats. You can find them in most well stocked parts stores. Some might say non-street or off road (racing). Oil formulations use different additives for anti-wear and a lot of the HD Diesel oils still have an adequate level of zinc and other additives to protect your engines. If you're buying a good properly formulated oil, you DO NOT need to use an oil additive. Some oil additives actually take away from the performance of the oil that you just installed. Happy New Year Jason |
Posted By: DougS
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2016 at 9:41am
Which Rotella? Shell calls all their diesel grade oils "Rotella." They have several different API types. With Rotella you have to know what you are buying. He's an example of where you want to be SURE you are using the correct oil. Go to their web page. You do NOT want to use an earlier API Rotella in a 2017 or newer diesel. Pay special attention to the CK-4/FA-4 differences. |
Posted By: Don(MO)
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2016 at 9:42am
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Thanks Steve and Jason, that's what I was trying to get out to the guy with a older tractor like 175's and older with flat tappet cam's, I'm not talking about newer engines in your 2005 pickup with roller lifters. All I'm saying is just like Fred said read what's in that jug of oil you pick-up before you put it in your older tractor if you still work her. OK here's the deal let's say you have a show tractor maybe it's a 1935 WC and all she see for work is the load-up and go to a show one or two times a year in a case like this a good brand of oil that no longer has zinc it will not wear the cam much if at all so use what you like, but let's say it's 170 that feeds hay all winter and works in the field all summer then I'd look at the oil used in it. ------------- 3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep. |
Posted By: BenGiBoy
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2016 at 10:36am
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Okay, I am a tad confused here... Do I want zinz or not in my older tractor engine? ------------- '39 Model B Tractors are cheaper than girls, remember that! |
Posted By: ocharry
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2016 at 10:40am
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another thing is most if not all synthetic oils dont have any or very little zink in them i did a lot of research on this when i bought a new generator,,,,i was going to run it with the oil supplied and then change to synthetic,,,,,wow,,got to looking and that isnt recommended,,,not much or any zink,,,,makes air cooled engine run hotter,,,not because of zink but just a trait of syn. oil,,,,doesnt take heat away as well as regular oil so after i did some looking and reading i settled on valvoline racing oil,,it is easy to find and or order at autozone( they have it on the shelf ) or other auto parts stores,,ZR1,,IIRC,,it list the zink nos. on the bottle,,,and they are up there pretty good,,,yep it cost more,,,but it is cheaper than a overhaul or new cam and lifters.....this is just MY pick,,,read up about it and READ the label on the jug or bottle the newer motors with roller lifters and rockers dont apply,,,ONLY FLAT TAPPET thx Don,,,good topic my .02 ocharry
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Posted By: Don(MO)
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2016 at 11:06am
Older flat tappet lifter engines need zinc. Gas, LPG or Diesel. Newer roller lifter engines do not need zinc. Gas, LPG or Diesel. I hope this helps. ------------- 3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep. |
Posted By: BigBadAllis
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2016 at 1:09pm
The Valvoline VR-1 Racing is a good choice. Note that they have two versions if the VR-1 Racing. They both have zinc but one is significantly higher than the other. |
Posted By: DougS
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2016 at 1:25pm
Wrong. AMSOIL makes a type called Z-Max. It's a high quality pure synthetic oil that has zinc in it. It is marketed specifically for classic cars and racing. I'm sure other high end synthetic oil brands offer something similar. Just don't start getting the idea that this would be the greatest thing since sliced bread for your family car. Unless you enjoy driving with the check engine light on constantly after your converter goes south. |
Posted By: Ted J
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2016 at 3:58pm
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Don said; "OLD TRACTORS"!!!! We do NOT WANT ANY comparisons to new cars here. THINGS MADE PRE 75 A couple of quotes: AMSOIL makes a type called Z-Max. It's a high quality pure synthetic oil that has zinc in it. It is marketed specifically for classic cars and racing. I will add ----------OLD TRACTORS--------- The Valvoline VR-1 Racing is a good choice. Note that they have two versions if the VR-1 Racing. They both have zinc but one is significantly higher than the other. This one if for OLD TRACTORS TOO......... ------------- "Allis-Express" 19?? WC / 1941 C / 1952 CA / 1956 WD45 / 1957 WD45 / 1958 D-17 |
Posted By: eighty nine
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2016 at 4:05pm
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Posted By: JD Dan
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2016 at 6:27pm
| Thanks Don! |
Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 31 Dec 2016 at 12:01am
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Be careful about VR-1. It may have ZDDP in it, but it has little detergents in it because a racer isn't going to have it in his engine long before doing a tear down and rebuild. ------------- "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford |
Posted By: allismanamp
Date Posted: 31 Dec 2016 at 3:26am
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What oil do you use for a all around oil don I was buying 5w30 from napa and do light plowing and pulling Baler in the summer Napa 5w30 have zinc you think? ------------- ~AMP~ |
Posted By: DougS
Date Posted: 31 Dec 2016 at 5:49am
You hit the nail on the head. You need to consider everything when you buy oil. While zinc is nice for flat tappets, it isn't a wonder additive. To me detergency is more important. Also consider the hours you will be putting on your engine. Say you plan on using your engine for 100 hours a year. How much additional wear will you have without zinc? It will be insignificant. If engine wear means so much, consider synthetic oil. It does reduce wear. It does not have a sacrificial additive, but it does provide a better protective layers then the old oils of 50 years ago. If you feel good about using a certain product, then go with it. Just keep in mind that the oil industry reformulated their motor oils to have anti wear properties when zinc was phased out. |
Posted By: BenGiBoy
Date Posted: 31 Dec 2016 at 8:13am
Thanks Don. That helps.  My B needs zinc.... ------------- '39 Model B Tractors are cheaper than girls, remember that! |
Posted By: 19856020
Date Posted: 31 Dec 2016 at 9:59am
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z rod ------------- 716 917 918 1920 d17 6080 |
Posted By: 19856020
Date Posted: 31 Dec 2016 at 10:16am
------------- 716 917 918 1920 d17 6080 |
Posted By: 19856020
Date Posted: 31 Dec 2016 at 10:25am
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someone said amzoil z max ,z max is a additive but not amzoil. think what they were referring to is amzoil z-rod I use it in wd d17 and 5 old chevys , hope I am doing the right thing . anyone else use the z-rod? ------------- 716 917 918 1920 d17 6080 |
Posted By: BenGiBoy
Date Posted: 31 Dec 2016 at 10:56am
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Just looked Z-Rod up... $11.20 a quart on the AMSOIL website! ------------- '39 Model B Tractors are cheaper than girls, remember that! |
Posted By: Dan73
Date Posted: 31 Dec 2016 at 11:12am
| Don I almost didn't read this thread because I know how the oil story goes here. But when I saw your name I went guess I better look. Good point on the zinc. |
Posted By: ocharry
Date Posted: 31 Dec 2016 at 11:18am
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DougS,,,what i was trying to say is that most off the shelf stuff in synthetic doesnt have zink,,,,,wasnt talking about specialty oils,,,or hard to get oils,,,,,by hard to get i mean you have to go to a speed shop or order online thats why i use vr1,,( i said zr1 in other post,, my bad,,lol old age ),easy to get and is plenty for my application yes they do make 2 versions of vr1,,,one is a street version and one is for off road only...i would use that off road version if i didnt have to order it,,,,the street version is on the shelf and i can get it local anytime i need oil nobody local for me sells amsoil,,,i have to order it on line i have always used valvoline and will continue but that is just me,,,i dont work for valvoline,,,,and that is just what i use,,,YOU will have to make your own choice,,,but i did a lot of reading and research and talking to racers i know and vr1 is where i settled my .02 ocharry
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Posted By: WF owner
Date Posted: 31 Dec 2016 at 12:25pm
| Just a comment, but, originally, the older AC tractors called for non-detergent oil; 10W in the winter and 30W in the summer. Of course, we all know that was before the advent of multi-viscosity oils. |
Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 31 Dec 2016 at 3:37pm
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Those ancient none detergent oils were really hard on engines filling them with sediment and sludge including the oil passages. When I was young my dad had subscription to Lubrication magazine from Texaco and I remember and article there comparing the new detergent oils to the nondetergent oils looking inside New York City taxi cab engines. The old oil engines filled with sludge in less than 50,000 miles and needed rebuilding more often than that while the engines running detergent oil were clean at 100,000 miles and still running fine. I know my dad had to rebuild his car engines about every 30,000 miles until he bought his first new car a '54 Ford I block 6. It showed no signs of needing internal maintenance at about 68,000 when he assigned me a summer task of pulling it and taking it apart to look for wear. The mains and rods plastigaged at .003, not worn at all. I put it back together and I know it ran to about 110k before it left the family. That was a new engine design short stroke and oversquare, but I believe that detergent oil was important in its longevity. Gerald J. |