Bet You Can't beat this one!
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=132731
Printed Date: 08 Jun 2025 at 11:38am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Bet You Can't beat this one!
Posted By: Farrell(Utah)
Subject: Bet You Can't beat this one!
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2016 at 7:38pm
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A friend took a radiator from a WD45 to a dealership to have it repaired. The names of the parties will remain unnamed. There was no discussion of price. The radiator was repaired and returned in nice repair except the top outlet was in the wrong place so he had to doctor the hood to get the hood on the tractor. Later, the dealership called with the bill of $1,800 for the repair. Yes, the dollar amount is what was charged for the repair. SOMEONE HAS NO CONSCIENCE. My frend does not intend to pay the bill as you would expect. Oh well, live and learn. ------------- A(1937), 2 G, 2 WD45 diesels, 6 WD45 gas, UC, 2 WD, D17 gas, WF, Farmall 400, D12, Kubota B3030 |
Replies:
Posted By: Sugarmaker
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2016 at 7:50pm
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Seems steep! Price should be agreed on near the front end of the job. Regards, Chris ------------- D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet. |
Posted By: Macon Rounds
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2016 at 7:55pm
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I believe the got the decimal in the wrong place. $180 is about right for a repair. Have had re-cores done for $500 and $700.... ------------- The Allis "D" Series Tractors, Gravely Walk behind Tractors, Cowboy Action Shooting !!!!!!! And Checkmate |
Posted By: Dans 7080
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2016 at 10:13pm
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I can buy a brand new one for $225! ------------- When someone tells you Nothings Impossible, Tell them to slam a revolving door |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2016 at 10:29pm
x2!
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Sugarmaker wrote:Posted By: macec3(TX)
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2016 at 7:10am
This, every time. |
Posted By: DougS
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2016 at 7:21am
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$1800? Tell him to keep the radiator. Either he will come down to a reasonable price or you could buy another one much cheaper. |
Posted By: dave63
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2016 at 8:55am
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The dealer has a limited responsibility to refuse work if he can't do a repair for a reasonable price. The owner should never assume this. The dealer was wrong for not estimating the price of the repair and securing payment terms up front. Also the dealer should have not let the radiator out the door with out payment. At this point the owner should find out what a radiator shop would charge and get a price on a new radiator then make a reasonable offer to settle the debt for what it should have cost to repair it. But not paying the bill could get ugly. ------------- The universal answer to all questions is yes, how much do you want to spend? |
Posted By: dave63
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2016 at 9:00am
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BTW, I bought a new one a few years ago. Can't remember the price but it was less then $500 It was less the the cost to repair it. Also I had a forklift radiator [special] repaired 2 years ago it was about $450 More then the new WD radiator. ------------- The universal answer to all questions is yes, how much do you want to spend? |
Posted By: Fred in Pa
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2016 at 9:05am
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Live and learn , some keep living and never learn. ------------- He who dies with the most toys is, nonetheless ,still dead. If all else fails ,Read all that is PRINTED. |
Posted By: DennisA (IL)
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2016 at 9:09am
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3 years ago I took the radiator out of my dads D-17 D for repair. They boiled it, fixed a few tubes and fix the tank. The cost was $200.00.
------------- Thanks & God Bless Dennis |
Posted By: Stan R
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2016 at 9:11am
| I'd pay the bill and move on and make it a life lesson: get a cost estimate before the work is started. |
Posted By: mdm1
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2016 at 9:15am
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I always want to know what I will write the check for! ------------- Everything is impossible until someone does it! WD45-trip loader 1947 c w/woods belly mower, 1939 B, #3 sickle mower 1944 B, 2 1948 G's. Misc other equipment that my wife calls JUNK! |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2016 at 9:24am
| I'd send the dealer with a check for $500, with the words final settlement, Invoice#XXXX. written on the memo section, if he cashes the check, you know no legal action will be taken. Always ask for an estimate, always take back something that don't fit right, and NEVER go back to the same dealer, that tries to scalp you. Now don't post anything about a dealer, on the internet, till the matter is settled. I am not a lawyer, nor did I sleep at a holiday inn, last night... |
Posted By: ILGLEANER
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2016 at 9:28am
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I would sell the guy a radiator with the rest of the tractor for less than 1800. I can see fault on both sides here. ------------- Education doesn't make you smart, it makes you educated. |
Posted By: Ethan Souerdike
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2016 at 9:31am
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I'm with DiyDave on this. If your friend doesn't pay at all, then there could be serious consequences. Whenever I need something fixed, I always ask my mechanic for an estimate and I tell him that if the price is going to be considerably higher than estimated to let me know before he does anything. ------------- If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy. |
Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2016 at 9:56am
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I just had a 1750 Oliver radiator rebuilt, totally re-cored, it was pretty rough. Was just over $700, and we discussed it before just doing it. I simply cannot see where anyone could justify billing someone 1800 for any radiator, much less for one that goes in a $1000 tractor lol! ------------- 210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers! |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2016 at 10:17am
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OK, YIKES, it is pricey,though NEW D-14 up here is $600..... NO discussion about price BEFORE ?? Sorry, but tractor owner is 'on the hook'. He SHOULD and COULD have limited the repair cost by signing and filling in the amount on the work order. At least that is the LAW up here, every auto shop has to ... As for the 'repair'.. it wasn't done properly, so the owner has a bit of a leg to stand on to mitigate the bill. There is no way I'd accept the rad if I had to modify MY tractor.... BTW you should post what shop this is, to warn others. Jay ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: Lon(MN)
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2016 at 10:34am
| This stuff happens. Ordered belts and a "Special Nut" for my mower. The belts where a great price but the price for the "Special Nut" was not available. I figured no more than $5 for the nut. Got the belts and the nut and the price of the nut was $58.00. The dealer was very good and gave me full credit for the nut. Still what a hassle to get it corrected. |
Posted By: Stan IL&TN
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2016 at 10:51am
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You would think that someone with more than two active brain cells would have checked the price of a new radiator before taking it to a shop. You would think he would have inquired about an estimate. You would think he would take it back if it wasn't right. You would think no one would modify their hood to get it to fit. Stupid is as stupid does. ------------- 1957 WD45 dad's first AC 1968 one-seventy 1956 F40 Ferguson |
Posted By: JohnCO
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2016 at 5:15pm
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I've got a JCB skid steer loader that needed a couple tiny little rubber buttons that cover the switches for the hydraulic and two speed controls that are on the right hand joy stick. Called the dealer, had to order them, couple weeks went by, nope, not here yet, month later, "they're here, though you might not want them". Drove the 50 miles to the dealer, three little yellow pieces of rubber in a plastic bag maybe 2 inches square. Parts guy told me to sit down while he looked up the price, $75!!!!!! I told him sorry, I just couldn't pay that much. Told me they checked the price twice to be sure it wasn't a typo or something. I offered to pay for shipping them back. He said no, they would put it on the bulletin board with the invoice for a while. I found an entire right hand control for my machine on ebay last month for $20, $13 shipping included. I sent the seller another $20 bucks for his trouble. ------------- "If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer" Allis Express participant |
Posted By: ac fleet
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2016 at 1:21pm
| BAD,BAD,bad, deal, BUT I am afraid he will have to pay the $1800, BUT then I would spread the word far and wide about that shop to warn others about their shoddy work and price gouging !--- let the chips fall!!! LOL!!! thanks; ac fleet |
Posted By: CALEBnOK
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2016 at 1:58pm
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Id would take it back and tell them to eat it as the top outlet is in the wrong place. I would get an estimate from anouther repair shop and price of new radiator. Small claims will side with owner if he has multiple repair quotes. Id atill make them fix the outlet. |
Posted By: thendrix
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2016 at 5:27pm
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I believe I would have to go there in person and verify that it was in fact $1800 and not $180. Especially if there is more them one person involved at the dealer. It's very possible somebody didn't pay attention to a number and whoever made the call didn't pay attention either. ------------- "Farming is a business that makes a Las Vegas craps table look like a regular paycheck" Ronald Reagan |
Posted By: WF owner
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2016 at 6:03pm
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The first thing I would do is go to the dealership and CALMLY try to settle this. I would take a copy of the bill, pictures of the problem with the outlet that did not allow the radiator to be installed properly and some estimates for a new radiator. (of course you have to realize that these "replacement radiators" are foreign made and not copper. You have to be able to compare apples to apples.) The problems I see with this whole deal is that 1. He accepted the radiator and didn't notify the dealer of problems until after he received the bill. 2. There was no "contract" (agreement on what repairs are being done and costs). When you hire someone without a contract, you are pretty much giving them permission to do whatever repairs they see fit and bill you for those repairs. If the dealer is reputable, he will probably work with him. If the dealer won't negotiate with him, he should get an attorney to write a letter to the dealer (ASAP) that the repairs made were not satisfactory and the cost was exorbitant. If this ends up going to court, your friend is going to need some documentation (before the court case), that he tried to arbitrate this with the dealer. Otherwise, it's going to appear that it is just a matter of non-payment and it will strengthen the dealers case. |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 19 Dec 2016 at 5:49am
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FWIW there's a WD45 an hour from me with a NEW RAD, water pump, rebuilt guv, good tires,etc. for 1400 Canucks, so maybe what $1000 USD ?
------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: Fred in Pa
Date Posted: 19 Dec 2016 at 6:17am
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All hear say ,what is the REAL STORY. ------------- He who dies with the most toys is, nonetheless ,still dead. If all else fails ,Read all that is PRINTED. |
Posted By: Butch(OH)
Date Posted: 19 Dec 2016 at 7:24am
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Pheew! I just has a radiator totally rebuilt and recored for my forklift. It is roughly half again larger than a WD unit plus is 4 row and the total was less than $600. 6-8 years ago ( I know different date and time) I had our WF radiator recored for like $300. Ya he should have asked for an estimate but any way you look at it the price is 2X or more over what it should be plus the work wasn't done right, he has a legit complaint with the dealer. |
Posted By: Fred in Pa
Date Posted: 19 Dec 2016 at 8:53am
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And should not have changed anything and taken it BACK to Dealer when it was not correct. ------------- He who dies with the most toys is, nonetheless ,still dead. If all else fails ,Read all that is PRINTED. |
Posted By: Steve in NJ
Date Posted: 19 Dec 2016 at 10:25am
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In today's day n' age, the first thing he did wrong was not get a quote. The pricing of items and parts are waaaay different then say even 4-5 years ago. Things just keep going up. With a quote of $1800. he should have gotten a good running 45' Tractor connected to that Radiator. That's a shame. I don't know how some of these people can sleep at night when they charge prices like that. Yeah, things go up, but not that far up! Whew! I call that a homerun...! He really should look into that. It could have been a typo error. ------------- 39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife |
Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 19 Dec 2016 at 12:44pm
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this whole deal sounds like a dealer scam. Do the work, give the part back to customer, and then bill them later, an exorbitant amount. Many large corporations just absorb these exorbitant charges because no one involved with the part is paying the bill anyway. Now we have a small scale customer who is involved with his own finances, knows that this is just plain and simple price gouging! I as a small business have repair jobs that can get expensive, but I make the customer aware of it, and never does anyone pick anything up without an invoice total on the spot. The other side of the coin is there's the dealer's side of the story. I agree with WF above, this guy needs to calmly go to the dealer and see if there's a reasonable explanation. Maybe they send them out, and of course mark up the rad shops work 2 or 3 times?? ------------- 210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers! |
Posted By: ac45
Date Posted: 19 Dec 2016 at 2:53pm
| He shouldn't have to pay anything. The outlet is on the wrong side. |
Posted By: alleyyooper
Date Posted: 20 Dec 2016 at 6:39am
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http://www.steinertractor.com/ACS114-radiator-pressurized?&TF=79A33C770BC. $327.00 new https://www.amazon.com/Allis-Chalmers-Tractor-Radiator-70228585/dp/B00D3RCUQO New $249.00 with free shipping. I would take printed out cost for a new radiator to the dealer and have a nice talk about his charge. If we could not come to agreement I would tell him I would return the radiator and buy a new one WAY CHEAPER and never darken his door again nor have a nice thing to say about the dealer ship ever again. I would never allow work to be done with out a quote to start with. If the person just refuses to pay and keeps the radiator He is libel for legal action and a collection agency harassing him for payment.  Al
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Posted By: WF owner
Date Posted: 20 Dec 2016 at 7:27am
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I have a feeling there is a lot more to this than we are hearing. If a dealer routinely did something like this, word would spread quickly and he wouldn't be in business long. Any time I have ever received a bill for repairs (of any kind), I have received an itemized bill breaking down parts, labor, shop supplies and other things used in the repair. I would really like to see that bill! One of the things I have learned in life (and work) is there are two sides to every story. I have a feeling there is a completely different (as the late Paul Harvey would say) "and that's the rest of the story". |
Posted By: victoryallis
Date Posted: 20 Dec 2016 at 9:23am
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Is it pricy? Yes, but if you didn't talk money before the job started you are responsible for the whole amount not what you feel is right. I would make sure they do eat making it fit right. When I pull a radiator I figure their goes close to a $1000 but then again that is in 6,7, and 8000 series tractors. Sorry but value of what it goes into has no correlation with the bill in regards to the dealer. ------------- 8030 and 8050MFWD, 7580, 3 6080's, 160, 7060, 175, heirloom D17, Deere 8760 |
Posted By: Hockeygoon
Date Posted: 20 Dec 2016 at 9:48am
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I went through this a couple years ago with a John Deere dealership. I bought an old 14T baler from my 90 year old neighbor. It worked the last time he used it and parked it in the shed. I greased it up and put in new twine and it was working for the most part but 1 in 20 bales the knotter would miss one side. I know nothing about John Deere balers and asked the dealer if they had an experienced "baler man" working for them. Oh yeah, got a guy that knows them inside and out. I told them it was an old baler and probably needed the timing adjusted a bit to get everything working like it should. The baler went in December knowing they would get to it when they got to it - low priority. Got the baler back and thought - maybe I better try this thing out and ran a couple bales through it - wouldn't tie on either side. Called them up and asked them what's the deal? It was working here (had to believe considering there was no hay in the baler. Bring it back and we'll get it right. Hauled it back with a couple bales of hay so they could check it. About 3 weeks later I was told it was done again. Picked up (no hay again) and ran a couple bales through it - the one side that had been working would now tie again, the side that was missing one in twenty bales would not tie at all. Called them and asked WTF? I was told - hey we'll fix it in the field - the fine tuning can't be done in the shop(?). Got a bill from the dealership for $2500. I called them up and asked them if they seriously expected me to pay them for taking my working baler $500 and turning it into a nonworking $3000 baler? Yep - we want paid. I talked to the manager and asked him WTF was up with their "baler man" and why the high price on something we discussed the need to keep reasonable due to its limited value. Turns out their designated "baler man" was a shop employee who happened to own a square baler - no training what so ever, I said Hell I own a square baler that doesn't make me a specialist. Eventually I paid them $1500 and sold the baler for parts for $400. I was just glad it was cheap baler for $1500 and not a $15,000 repair on a tractor that didn't work when it came out of the shop. |
Posted By: TimNearFortWorth
Date Posted: 20 Dec 2016 at 11:52am
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You are lucky HockeyGoon, at least your baler did not have a computer they could plug a laptop into. JD hit on something by starting to increase prices some years back. Now more companies are doing it as they feel the consumer has no choice and "the John Deere boys in marketing got away with it". Have a brother that traded in a JD 4WD that was only one year old, on a Case-IH, because JD told him they have instructions from Deere on how much they have to charge for parts/service. Friend here had water issues in fuel per JD computer and after 2nd service call for his 130hp 4WD on his remote ranch, asked the JD service tech what other companies had equivalent filters for his tractor as he would no longer pay the JD price. Advised he was told the JD filters were made for their newer tractors under exclusive agreement for a number of years and could not be purchased anywhere but Deere. Found out later he had found someone in the area that cut off the JD piping for inlet/outlet on his mounted filters and they fabbed in new common mounts so he can run multiple brands of name brand filters. Apparently the fella that does it has performed this retrofit on many green tractors in N. TX and OK. |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 20 Dec 2016 at 6:07pm
Best thing to do is to buy a manual for an older NH baler, don't matter which one. since all square balers of a similar time period were rip=offs of NH's design, the troubleshooting is basically all the same...
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Posted By: DaveKamp
Date Posted: 24 Dec 2016 at 7:08pm
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If it were me, I would have asked for the bill to be itemized out. Two hours' labor, at $500/hr? new radiator cap for $300.00? At that point, the circumstance has more clarity. Anyone who's in ANY business for ANY length of time past a few years will have an inherent familiarity with the economy of his OWN business environment, and realize very clearly what the cost of business operations requires. It is impingent upon successful business to be intimately aware of the most reasonable path to customer satisfaction, and when there's a clear diaspora between paths, to discuss it with the customer before proceeding down what could be an extremely undesireable path. In the case of say... repairs to a cylinder head for a 1905 Rolls-Royce 3.5L V8... if one was still in existence, the repair bill could be $30,000... yet totally acceptable (because NO 1905 Rolls V8's are known to still exist), but if they DID, it's clear that you wouldn't be able to find a suitable replacement in a junkyard. But if that was a 3.5L V6 from a mid '90's minivan, you'd think it foolish to spend over $100, because there's dozens in the junkyard. The shop has just as much responsibility IMO... and I'm pretty certain a judge would see the same. ------------- Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest. |
Posted By: ryanschott
Date Posted: 25 Dec 2016 at 10:59am
| If i was running that dealership I would have had the ethics to say hey I can't fixed this for anything near a new one. And the new one will be better. As far as I'm concerned the customer should be able to sue for price gauging. |
Posted By: ryanschott
Date Posted: 25 Dec 2016 at 11:01am
| But yes always ask price first. I took a b rad to local shop they said $500. To fix and then said I'll sell a new one for $250. Doing the honest thing. |