Coolant Mystery
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=132693
Printed Date: 16 May 2025 at 1:37pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Coolant Mystery
Posted By: MN-Realtor-Farmer
Subject: Coolant Mystery
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2016 at 12:40am
|
I first want to thank everyone who spends time on this forum and contributes. The wealth of knowledge here is amazing. My family and I recently moved to 10 acres and found ourselves in need of something to plow the driveway this winter. I won the battle with my wife (she lets me think that at least) and talked her into letting me buy a tractor rather than an old beater truck with a plow. Two weeks later I had two Allis Chalmers WD tractors sitting in the garage (2 for 1 deal on Craigslist). They have their issues and suffice it to say that I am hooked. I am so hooked the both of the WDs have their engines torn down (one was stuck and the other ran rough) and I am in the process of deciding how far to go on the rebuild. I also have two WD45's on the way as well - long story. In the meantime I am shoveling rather than plowing. First question for the forum: On the tractor that was running rough, I noticed that there were leaks at all 6 air manifold and both coolant manifold connections to the head. I took both manifolds off in an attempt to investigate the problem. When I drained the coolant (because you can't stop at just taking manifolds off your first antique tractor), I found something weird that I am hoping one of you has seen. uploads/16402/2016-12-13_13.09.52.jpg" rel="nofollow - uploads/16402/2016-12-13_13.09.52.jpg Bottle A was the first gallon (give or take) to come out of the radiator, bottle B was the 2nd gallon to come out of the radiator, and bottle C was drained out of the block. When I drained the oil it was jet black so I know there was no water or coolant in it, but I can't figure out what is up with the coolant. Has anyone seen this before? I have two hypothesis: 1. Two different types of coolant were used and didn't mix and have therefore stayed as a layered liquid. 2. There is oil or some other foreign substance mixing into the coolant that should cause me concern. Can anyone help?
|
Replies:
Posted By: shameless (ne)
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2016 at 5:21am
| congrats on your new to you tractors, and welcome to the forum! all my tractors (cept one special one) are all newer than yours so I can't comment on what might be in those jugs like that (I don't know the answer), but there will be lots of others that can/will help you on this! and if'n you gits lots of snow....you can thank me later! lol |
Posted By: Stan IL&TN
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2016 at 7:25am
|
Might be oil in them jugs so that might mean a head gasket. I would be conservative and do a compression test to see if one cylinder is down on compression and causing it to run rough. If one was low the that would point to getting into the engine more. If all cylinders were about the same then I would do a tune up, change the fluids and run it some to see if the problem persists or not. ------------- 1957 WD45 dad's first AC 1968 one-seventy 1956 F40 Ferguson |
Posted By: MACK
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2016 at 7:55am
| Normal if it had been setting. Drain plugs are at bottom where all foreign matter settles. MACM |
Posted By: TimNearFortWorth
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2016 at 10:37am
| If "oily", could also be an additive from years ago as does not take much for residue to show up and separate. Years ago additives like Marvel were considered standard with a lot of the older units as the thought process was it reduced corrosion. I remember as a kid where a cup of marvel was standard in the radiators back in the northeast. |
Posted By: carl
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2016 at 11:21am
| I remember A-C sold "soluble oil" to add to the radiator fluid, as I recall it mixed with the coolant and became milky. It was considered a preventative. I don't think it would settle out, but maybe it did when the tractor sat. |
Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2016 at 11:25am
|
Like Tim says, old timers put a little oil in the coolant. That's an old practice that's no longer necessary/shouldn't be done anymore because of coolant technology. If the oil were coming from the crankcase it would be just as black as what you drained out of the oil pan. No matter which way you go, discard it properly. To remove oil from a cooling system if you're not overhauling it, Simple Green is very effective. ------------- "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford |
Posted By: TimNearFortWorth
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2016 at 11:54am
|
Used dishwasher "tabs" a few years ago on a D17DIV that followed me home. Heart sank when "reddish oily residue" was visible in radiator filler neck the next day. Matted it out with a paper towel and did not get anymore (old additive?), cracked petcock on block and it was nasty so I figured I'd clean it up for new anti-freeze as she would be sitting for some time on the projects list. Cut open a couple dishwasher tabs and dissolved them in a gallon of distilled water before adding to the radiator and filling with distilled water. Got her good and hot and left her at high idle, making sure she was circulating well. Sat a few days, got her hot and ran her again so she was circulating for sure before draining the nastiest crud you would want to see. Continued flushing with plenty of new distilled water fills before draining/filling with a decent name brand anti-freeze. Temp gauge did show her running a bit cooler by the time I was done. |
Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2016 at 12:22pm
|
Now that you say that Tim, I've been told that too. I was checking the freeze protection of my E Gleaner and it needs flushed out too. ------------- "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford |
Posted By: Don(MO)
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2016 at 2:23pm
You mean like this stuff? ------------- 3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep. |
Posted By: Don(MO)
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2016 at 2:28pm
When you find the coolant that looks like that then the inside of the engine might look like this. ------------- 3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep. |
Posted By: Dan73
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2016 at 2:40pm
|
Welcome to the forum. I don't have alot to add except that I would be in the camp of checking compression and getting the ruff running one going even if she limps a little to plow right now. Take the other one completely apart and go through the motor or better yet wait for one of the wd 45 to get there and if neither one runs better rebuild one of them they have a little more power. But as long as the compression test looks ok I would do plugs wires points condenser cap rotor and if she still runs ruff get a carb cleaning. Electrical is all easy and probably the biggest problem you have with it not running well or would be my first guess. If you can get her out there at all you will have a much happier wife. And this life...lol besides the way shameless is going you don't want to shove it all... You said the motor oil looked black without antifreeze so I wouldn't worry about cross contamination if that was the case you would find a mix in both places or expect to anyway. |
Posted By: Allis dave
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2016 at 2:54pm
| You learn something new everyday. I never knew there was such a thing as soluble oil to mix with antifreeze. |
Posted By: tadams(OH)
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2016 at 2:55pm
|
Welcome to the sight. When oil and water are in the same container the water always settles to the bottom. Like when water gets in theoil you loosen the drain plug a the water will come out before the oil. Tom
|
Posted By: TimNearFortWorth
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2016 at 3:36pm
|
Don, the above mentioned D17DIV is the one with major blow-by we discussed the gas valve cover for as she was pressurizing the crankcase to the point of pushing oil back out the fill cap tube on the block. Figured I'd clean the radiator/block up for storage so it will be easier for you to get the sleeves out someday! Tim |
Posted By: LeonR2013
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2016 at 3:44pm
| The oil is probably black because it hasn't been changed for several years. Like others have said, get it running good if possible, check everything out and change the fluids. You'll get a good idea of what you have that way. By the way, welcome to the forum and before you know it you'll be helping others. |
Posted By: B26240
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2016 at 4:20pm
| Welcome to the forum, WD's are a favorite AC tractor of mine, with you having two of them I suggest you get one running good enough to plow your snow and then you can work on fixing the other one to a higher standard. Many people wince at the thot of spending 3 or 4 K on these old girls to put them in tip top condition but they are very useable and parts are available and most of all no computer stuff. BTW as others have said don't wory about the dark antifreeze, most likely been in there 50 years. Mark from northern MN |
Posted By: MN-Realtor-Farmer
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2016 at 4:23pm
|
It seems like the consensus is that the oil was put there on purpose, and that the coolant should simply be replaced. I would love to flush the system out before spending money on 3 new gallons of coolant, but alas the temps won't be above freezing here for many months. Any tips for flushing the system out that doesn't require a hose and a heated garage with a drain? Both of the WD's are torn down to the block, the stuck one so that I could see what I was dealing with, and the rough running one because I got carried away. The head off of the stuck one seemed to be in better shape (less carbon on the valves, valve stems, and valve seats) so I am probably going to throw that one back on the rough runner and limp her through until warm weather allows me to do everything right. That will also allow me a chance to soak the other tractor's valves and head in some Berryman's Chem Dip and try to get that one cleaned up. Thank you everyone for your input. I look forward to continuing the tradition here when I actually have something to add. |
Posted By: Dan73
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2016 at 4:29pm
| If you have it that far apart I would guess you let it drain all the stuff that would drip out. Honestly I wouldn't worry about what might be left put in fresh and keep an eye on the oil if it gets black fast I would change it other wise I would just run it. |
Posted By: Dan73
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2016 at 4:34pm
| My one bit of advice learned the hard way. I would replace the head bolts they are probably old and been out before. I rebuilt my d15 use the old bolts it seemed ok but I lost the head gasket pulled the head off and found nothing wrong replaced the gasket and in the process of torquing the bolts one broke before I even got to the final torque. I got lucky and was able to get the bolt out but the thought of getting a broken head bolt out made me decide I would just get new head bolts in the future. |
Posted By: j.w.freck
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2016 at 8:11pm
| the correct name for the water soluble oil is called DROMUB-B.we used it in all the big radial aircraft engines that had water injection.it was a lub,for the water injection pump and the water regulators.you only had to use 1 pint for 50 gallons of water..... |
Posted By: j.w.freck
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2016 at 8:12pm
| that should have read,dromus-b for the oil |
Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2016 at 9:14pm
| Mr Freck...what was the water injection about on the radials?Exhaust cooling kinda like the tractor pullers do? Them BIG stacked up babies probably had heating issues near the back. |
Posted By: j.w.freck
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2016 at 9:23pm
| no the radial engines ha 3 different rations of injection,you could use 100% distilled water,a 50/50 mixture of water and alchol or 60/40 mixture.all it did was increase the mixture mass going into the cylinder.but the main objective was to prevent detonation.you lost considerable power on take off with out it.the only time it was used was on takeoff power..... |
Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2016 at 9:28pm
|
You can go back and correct your original post. Just click on post options and one of the options is edit post. Only you are allowed to edit your post. And that button allows deleting the correction post. Gerald J. |