ALLIS 175 VALVES
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=132132
Printed Date: 08 Jun 2025 at 2:39am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: ALLIS 175 VALVES
Posted By: THEFOX
Subject: ALLIS 175 VALVES
Date Posted: 02 Dec 2016 at 2:00pm
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I posed this problem before a while back but couldn't find it again. So here it is again. When I first started looking at this engine it had four bent push rods. This happened after the head was replaced due to a supposed water leak on the head. No leak was found after testing the head so it was put back on. The valves were re done and new seats installed by the looks of them. Some valves are longer than others by about 1/16". So we put the rocker arm assy back on and backed off the adjusting screws all the way and when we turn the crank over by hand some of the are compressed to the max! and if turned any further it bends the push rods! What is going on here? Wrong valve springs too many coils? The pistons come to the top of the liner and the head is flat ( no compression chamber ) so how can the valves open on exhaust if there is no space there? By the way it's a 226 engine. |
Replies:
Posted By: Allis dave
Date Posted: 02 Dec 2016 at 2:43pm
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http://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=130239&KW=&title=push-rods-got-bent" rel="nofollow - http://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=130239&KW=&title=push-rods-got-bent Here's a link to the original topic. |
Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 02 Dec 2016 at 4:50pm
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If you're opening the valves to the point of coil bind (stacked solid) and nothing else was changed, I'd be willing to bet the rocker shaft was installed with the short side between the shaft and the head. Take the rocker shaft off and turn the pedestals so the long side is between the shaft and head. ------------- "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford |
Posted By: dgerth
Date Posted: 02 Dec 2016 at 6:04pm
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The Compression Chamber is on top of the piston, So what Brian said is probably the case. Valves are hitting the pistons, Stems too long, wrong rocker arms? Wrong pushrods? Just thoughts. dg
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Posted By: MACK
Date Posted: 02 Dec 2016 at 9:07pm
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On a 175, the piston should not come all the way to top, even with WD pistons. Have you ever had this motor running or is this a project motor? MACK
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Posted By: MACK
Date Posted: 02 Dec 2016 at 9:16pm
| After reading your original post, I think you got a short WD head that takes taller Stands. Better go back to shop and get the right head. MACK |
Posted By: THEFOX
Date Posted: 03 Dec 2016 at 5:25am
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The head measures 3 7/8" thick, what should a head for a 175 measure? Rocker arm pedestals that we have can only be put on one way as the flat base has to go toward the head. The other way around would be way too short and only a small area for the nut to hold them in place. |
Posted By: THEFOX
Date Posted: 03 Dec 2016 at 5:30am
| I got involved in this project after the push rods got bent and he was stumped for a reason why. Yes the piston does not come to the top of the liner I checked again. More checking I recon. |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 03 Dec 2016 at 6:51am
| There are a couple of things here that need to be addressed. #1. You say you've just backed off all the rocker arm adjustment screws as far as they would go. If that is the case, you SHOULD have had plenty of valve lash, if you actually used a feeler gauge to readjust the rocker arm clearances. DID YOU USE A FEELER GAUGE TO DO THIS OR NOT?? If there was zero lash at the valves (after loosening all adjustment screws all the way), your machine shop must have installed valves that are too long. Think about it....same tractor....same push rods.....same camshaft......same rocker arms (???). Nothing has changed except the head and/or valves/or springs. |
Posted By: Dick L
Date Posted: 03 Dec 2016 at 8:22am
Easy fix for the blind leading the blind is to cut the valve stems off with a body grinder so they fit. Saves fooling with head bolts and measuring valve lengths. Also save on staring at the problem time. Before the rocks start to fly my advise above is called sarcasm and not to be followed.
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DrAllis wrote:Posted By: THEFOX
Date Posted: 03 Dec 2016 at 10:02am
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Even when the adjusting screws backed all the way off it still bottoms out the springs! Cannot even start adjusting anything. Four new push rods from Stiener the rest are originals. What is the length of the rocker supports supposed to be? Yes I agree nothing else was changed so my buddy says but, I cannot swear to it as I didn't take it apart. |
Posted By: Dick L
Date Posted: 03 Dec 2016 at 10:06am
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Each part of an engine has specs and they are not hidden. Look them up! The only way to know if the part is within spec is to measure it. None can be measured by the eye. If one or more valves appear to be 1/16" long by the eye it could be 1/8". If something looks to be different, it should be an (Oh Crap) moment and taken apart to compare to the proper spec not compared to other parts. If one is out of spec they all might be out of spec. The most important tools in engine rebuilding is the measuring tools.
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Posted By: Dick L
Date Posted: 03 Dec 2016 at 10:23am
And your not going to know until it is taken apart again. No one else will know until it is taken apart. Opinions and guesses will not measure one single thing. I have made mistakes in rebuilding engines. The very first thing I did was take it back apart and start checking for the mistake. Screwed up at nine PM on a Friday night on my racing engine in the 1960's. I pulled the engine and took it apart. I had it back together and in the car corrected with an hour from the time I had to pull out. Crap happens to everyone but wondering doesn't fix the problem. Sleeping on it does not help either. Just the fact mam, just the facts. (from and old TV show said on every show by Sgt. Joe Friday played by Jack Webb before most here was born) |
Posted By: THEFOX
Date Posted: 07 Dec 2016 at 5:39am
| Well, the problem is now solved ! The rebuilder gave us the wrong head ! Part # AM4859 Should be AM4831. Hopefully he still has the one that belongs to us! |
Posted By: Dick L
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2016 at 8:40am
Great! Thanks for letting us know.  |
Posted By: DougG
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2016 at 4:56pm
| Are you serious ? |
Posted By: THEFOX
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2016 at 5:25am
Checked with the rebuilder and he say's no way, that's the head that was brought in! So we're stuck!!! How about putting a spacer between the head and the rocker supports? Like an 1/8" thick.
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Posted By: Fred in Pa
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2016 at 10:16am
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Just put the correct rocker shaft stands that go with the short head . ------------- He who dies with the most toys is, nonetheless ,still dead. If all else fails ,Read all that is PRINTED. |
Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2016 at 6:41pm
| ...I just did some eyeballing with a tape measure on an E combine head(should be the same thing).Has no rocker shaft. 3 7/8 thick(not quite).Top of retainer approx 1 7/8 from spring seat.Top of valve stem approx 2in from spring seat. From rocker stand pad to top of retainer approx 1 1/8. How does that compare to what you have? |
Posted By: MACK
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2016 at 9:35pm
| Yes, the head from E is same as D 17. MACK |
Posted By: THEFOX
Date Posted: 12 Dec 2016 at 2:13pm
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Who's got rocker arm supports? None of the catalogs list them. |
Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 12 Dec 2016 at 7:08pm
how does yours compare? |
Posted By: THEFOX
Date Posted: 13 Dec 2016 at 2:25pm
| I think we'll just put some spacers under the supports and that'll be good. |
Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 13 Dec 2016 at 8:57pm
| okay,but how is it that you don't have the correct stands for the engine?I never did get an answer on comparison measuring.What is really going on there? |
Posted By: THEFOX
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2016 at 5:59am
| The problem started when the neighbor took the head into the rebuilder to have it checked for cracks. They gave him the wrong head back, according to the casting number it is for a D15! So he goes back a couple of months later and they say NO WAY that happened ! the head fits on the block okay but, is obviously not right because it bends the push rods and the valves are totally compressed bending the push rods. The head is apperently an 1/8" thinner than the correct head. So we have too short rocker arm supports, thus the need for spacers. |
Posted By: Allis dave
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2016 at 6:55am
| If it's actually a D15 head, I don't think anything else would line up. I think they used a different manifold and probably other parts too. The D15 was a fair amount smaller motor cubeswise. |
Posted By: THEFOX
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2016 at 7:15am
| My mistake, it's a D17 AM4659 CASTING # should be AM 4831 or AM 4472. |
Posted By: Allis dave
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2016 at 9:16am
| A D17 and tall WD45 head are the same. The only difference is the manifold bolts in a 17 head are 7/16 instead of 3/8's. There something else wrong. |
Posted By: AaronSEIA
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2016 at 9:29am
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I think it's back to square 1. Was it running before it was taken apart, who did that work, and where did they go with the parts. AaronSEIA |
Posted By: Mrgoodwrench
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2016 at 9:58am
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I see two glaring things that Must be determined, did you receive "Short" head from the machinist and are the valves the correct length. You have the casting number of you head I'm sure someone here can tell you if it is a short head. If it is then that's one problem since the short head needs long pedistoles. Although I thought the larger bolts on a d17 would make that impossible to bolt up. You need to determine if the valves/springs are correct. If you can see a difference in the valves from one to another I'd say that's an issue, remember valve clearance is measured in thousandths, you should need a mic. to tell the difference. I don't have a book in front of me but installed height should be easy to find and probably distance from tip to keeper grove as well as overall length. ------------- There are 3 ways to do job GOOD, FAST, CHEAP. YOU MAY CHOOSE 2. If its FAST & CHEAP it won't be GOOD, if it's GOOD & CHEAP it won't be FAST, and if its GOOD & FAST it won't be CHEAP!!!! |
Posted By: HudCo
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2016 at 10:32am
| i think this head and rocker shaft and push rods, and also engine block #'s has to go to a DIFFERANT machine shop that really cares and will look up the parts and spec.s and do some measureing for you. would probley be a minamaul cost . they will pick up on whats wrong |
Posted By: Allis dave
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2016 at 10:34am
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The D17 block uses 3 7/16's head studs instead of 3/8's. When mine was off this summer, the those 3 bores in the WD45 head would be large enough for a 7/16 stud. I don't think there was a change there. I think the only change was in the size of the manifold studs. I believe the tall head is 4" and the short head is 3". You should be able to measure that pretty easily. The valve cover was also taller on the short head to make room for the taller rocker pedestal. I would bet that if you put a 1" block under the rocker pedestal, you can't put on the valve cover. |
Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2016 at 8:46pm
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The 4in head isn't quite 4in but along way from 3in.He has stated the head as being the "4"in.Thats why I ask him how stem/retainer height compared to the head I measured.I still haven't had that question answered.Hard to help someone who won't cooperate. My 4 inch head measured just short of 3 7/8 with a tape measure so his head is NOT too thin.... |
Posted By: THEFOX
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2016 at 6:18am
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The head we have is 3 7/8" thick. The tractor ran before being torn down and the neighbor is second owner of the tractor, first owner says head was never off so how does the head we have, have the wrong casting number on it if it was the same head he took in? Too darn cold now to do any work on it so it'll have to wait a while. |
Posted By: Allis dave
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2016 at 7:55am
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How do you know what the casting number is "supposed" to be. Check if the manifold studs are 3/8's. If so it IS a WD45 head. Even if it is a D17 head, it doesn't matter and wouldn't cause your problem. WD45 and D17 heads are interchangeable and the same height. Did you get the spring seats or caps on wrong? A picture of the assembled head would help a lot. I'm guess the valves or seats are wrong. If your head is 3 7/8's, that is not the problem. |
Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2016 at 9:07am
| ...and a D17 & up used long reach plugs.A WD45 plug will not reach the chamber...either way both heads should bolt on.They use the same rocker stands so if things don't fit you have to have wrong valves (too long).If that's the case who knows what springs are on it.PM your# & I'll send a phone picture of my head so you can see how things appear. |