~Warren

Side note...you have a working Everett creeper? That creeper alone is worth more than any 8N! They're a rare bird. I thought about buying a junk 8N with an Everett once, because the owner didn't know what he had, but it had already sold when I called about the ad. 

I DID read it, but I thought I'd ask anyway Lol

Never know...he might just make an exception!

That's where the Massey Ferguson designs came from.   N series Ford without all the shortcomings. 

I have a MF 202 industrial that was converted into a forklift.  It's basically an N series Ford but with twice the engine power, twice the transmission gears, twice the brakes,  Power steering, live hydraulics, and live PTO (not that a forklift needs a PTO) 

They did have duals as an option, and you could get something (not sure of the actual name) but looks like a steel wheel that bolts to each drive wheel. The diameter of the wheel is about 2" less than the tractor tire so you can drive on pavement, but if you hit a soft spot and sink down a bit, the steel wheel grabs and helps drive you forward.

Maybe HD6GTOM will feel generous and save us a couple half track kits, next time he finds some. Just like everything, they only built so many, and once they're gone, they're gone. Period. 

Regardless of color, I love preserving history, just for that purpose. Even JD stuff, like an original super rare low radiator un-styled G I may be buying soon. 

But...Allis is and always will be my favorite! 

Also...Acfarm...If you want to talk to more people who like Fords than just me, I recommend joining the My Tractor Forum (MTF) website  (Link: http://www.mytractorforum.com/38-ford-ns-9n-2n-8n/" rel="nofollow - http://www.mytractorforum.com/38-ford-ns-9n-2n-8n/  ). They have a N series section, and those guys are great, just as knowledgeable as these guys are on Allis, except on Ford. They would be glad to help answer any questions, and they won't talk down your 8N! Trust me, I know! Without them, I probably couldn't have restored my 8N! It was my first restoration, and I had to learn a LOT! 

What?  

I take it you don't know the historical relation between the Ford Ferguson designs and the Massey Ferguson designs?  

Do  some historical reading about both and look at some pictures of the N series Fords compared to MF similar sized units  that came later and let me know if you still  don't see  the relation between the two. 

Ill give you a hint, the names  and machine layouts are are a dead giveaway to the relation. 

Yea. The low points and limitations of the base N series were improved upon but the overall base design,other than some sheet metal differences, and target application plus market of the tractor  stayed the same.  

  

Basically the N series with all of it's major shortcomings of the time fixed.   

You would think so, Dave. I mean, I wouldn't scrap a tractor at all. I've got part of an early 1948-49 8N at the ranch that all that's left is the transmission, rear end front axle, and a rare Knoedler optional seat (That's on my "Thing's to restore" list). Point is, there isn't much, but the transmision looks good, as well as the PTO shaft, hydraulic pump, etc. Everything still has oil in it. There's always someone looking for something. It makes me sick when I see RUNNING tractors scrapped! Just because they don't like the brand... 

He said he ended up having more stolen than he sold...you just have to know where to advertise! Say if a JD guy was scrapping out W and D series Allis tractors (Yes, D21s included) and just happened to stumble across a WD45 with a working power steering setup and figured no one would want it (Since Allis's are useless in a JD guy's eyes), he'd probably just toss it in with the scrap. BUT...if the JD guy had listed the power steering set up on here for, say $50, how many of you would jump on it? I would! 

Same thing for Ford parts. If you put them here, only a couple people (if that) would be interested. But...advertise on the N Board or MTF, and I can almost guarantee you'd have takers! 

Yep, that's one thing I notice about both the N Board and the Ford guys on MTF. They don't talk bad about other brands. 

I'm on a mission to find a bunch of optional equipment for the Ford Ns. In particular a Sherman hi/low combo , and an Arps half track (I have really good brakes. Keep adjusting them every now and then to compensate for liner wear, and you'll be stopping and turning on dimes for years! They really do have the best mechanical brakes of any tractor I've ever ran)

Sounds like a forum worth checking out. 

Regarding scrapping other brands as a guy who scraps a lot of things for iron I can say that after personal preference towards personal brand loyalty plays its part deciding what's junk beyond reasonable reuse, personal experience with people who are loyal to another brand is next in line.   

I know that until I dealt with people on this forum I thought AC tractors were okay but now to be honest if and when any of ours go down for a major issue I won't hesitate to haul them in for iron (probably will tell the crane operators to crush them to bits while I watch and take pictures too)  just to make sure no  AC collector' or s users get anything usable from them again even if I could double or triple my money on what was paid for them in the end.  

A few bad apples running unchecked here ruined the whole damn feel I had for AC equipment. Especially B's 

I already put a link for the MTF website, but here's one for the N board. The N News also puts out a nice magazine and calendar! 

http://www.ntractorclub.com/" rel="nofollow - http://www.ntractorclub.com/

There's a tab at the top called "N Board". That's where the forum is. 

That's just terrible... I hate it that something on here bothered you so much it made you want to crush the Allis's... I hope I wasn't one of the ones 

well.... since you asked.  

Mostly it's the overall demeanor of an enthusiast or a group of enthusiasts and how they treat or accept other people looking to learn more about what it is they like so much. It's very much like a church and its congregation in a way and how their actions or lack thereof will sway a person's views of what they as an individual may contribute or refuse to contribute toward the goals of the group on their behalf.  

Sort of like this.

A new guy walks in the door of your big orange church one day with questions.  Is he welcomed by the majority and shown what the church holds as its beliefs to be true or does he get a highly judgemental insanely biased run over by one or two of the attending overly righteous fools trying to appear to be the unanimous voice of judgment for the congregation?  

I came here with questions and an open mind and tried to share my knowledge and experiences only to be run down repeatedly by a few fools hell bent on taking everything thing I say, that does not perfectly match their beliefs out of context to be highly confrontational direct attacks on them, so that they can run with it in front of everybody to apparently glorify their self perceived superiority over me while the majority  typically do nothing but have a few members whisper to me 'don't worry about them. Everyone knows they're idiots and thanks for standing up to them.'  then go back into public silence and hiding. 

Sorry, but although I still attend here I now never expect a post with a comment, question or observation I make to not be on the edge of being torn apart in order to start a flame war so a few specific fools can feel superior over nothing while the majority silently watch on.

Maybe the majority here are the greatest and nicest people in the world but I don't know. So far every shred of experience here has given me every reason to feel the garbage can deserves my donations to their cause more than they do.

That's how I have came to the conclusion at this point that I would rather scrap my equipment then pass it onto the orange church congregation to better others so to speak, and thank you for having the decency to at least ask why I now feel as I do. 

Anyway, everyone feel free to sit quietly while the same tired tiny group of fools (or possibly one with multiple proxy accounts/names) do their/his damnedest to take as much of this as far out of context as possible to once again justify tearing into me so that they/he can show everyone I'm really the pompous self righteous know it all egotistical unhumble thread drifting bhah blah blah terrible person whatever.  

I've come to expect no less. 

I expect that sort of antics in the political section.  

For me what rubbed me the wrong way too many times was the being blatantly getting attacked in basic threads no different than this one because someone decided to take some generalized comment I made, Vs anyone else's, that was based on personal experience and or rationalized logic as a personal insult against all of AC when none was ever implied that set up the bad vibe for me.   

As with you I'm a multi brand collector/user and I tend to only post to topics I feel I have some experience/knowledge/semi relevant opinion on but still that has lead to every detail of my life, my knowledge, my experience, my social attributes, my income/wealth/life assets, my employment past and present, my education, my years of owning anything AC related, my family, my gratitude all being called into question outrightly attacked  and  judged to not being sufficient to participate here by a few fools while the majority here said and did nothing about it other than watch.  

The only consolations I got during those events were from a few who sent me private messages to say those guys are idiots that should be kicked out for such acts and to thank me for standing up to them since so few others will. 

That's what left the bad taste in my mouth about AC collectors/enthusiasts.  It wasn't just the outright nonsensical attacks by a few (or possibly one running multiple proxy accounts to look like more than one person all agreeing on what a bad person I am)  that bothered me as much as the overall lack of open willing good stewardship of the majority to keep that sort of actions on the forum from happening. 

Thank you for asking and hearing me and my opinions out. It does help to know some here do want  to know about what drives newer members off or what makes them stay. It does help change the weighting of my views of the forum a bit.    

I'm more disappointed than mad. I now know who the trolls/troll are/is.   

It just gave me a good long reason to question the overall membership of the forum for a while.  I've never been on forum where a member can be ganged up on with zero justified provocation other than having given a technical opinion before and no one so much as lifted a finger to directly do anything about it.  

If anything during those events the getting PM's from people saying they agreed with me and were glad I was standing up to the accusations rather than give direct help or intervention in a way was more of a insult than anything.  Near silent support from apparent cowards doesn't score points with me.       

Anyway, Yea we have a 9N that been in the family all my life.   It was grandpas go to tractor when I was a kid.  We flat out wore it out!  Once Grandpa and Grandma moved to town and dad inherited it I went through it from the ground up on a full restore and update of sorts.   

Yea as everyone says. They are underpowered and all around poorly designed by modern standards and expectations.  Too fast in 1st gear too slow in high with too little power to do much of anything but bare basic work everywhere in between!  Still beat using a team of horses though! 

~Warren

Yep. I've found that out before! Lol

You don't even need to be off color.  just question something simple basic and how it was designed and try and point out how it is easily improved on with modern technology.   

That and don't say anything without the utmost revere and humility to the AC god. (or whichever pompous dumbass troll is near.)    

Provoking a unsolicited unwarranted attack is not hard here.  You just need to have the right idiots for an audience.   

Friend: A John Deere guy always has the right tools on hand. 

Me: Yeah, you John Deere guys need all those tools.

Friend: Well what are we working on now??? Ah ha! John Deere tools save the day again!!

Everyone had a good laugh that day.  He did admit he was very impressed how good the combine was doing, and how well the B that was powering it was doing, since the field was a little muddy in places. Never got stuck, but came pretty close. 

It all depends on what is being changed and how.   A lot of the modifications I have done to our equipment over the years was bases in simply taking fiddly hard to work on, hard to source or expensive to source components and updating those problem areas to use a more common easy to find easy to work with and more durable  replacement parts or eliminate a weak point all together.  

 

The last Mod job I did ws the inner PTO  shaft support bearing on our MF 2745.  The OEM bearing ran directly on the PTO shaft and ws well know for chewing it up then self destructing eventually leading the total failure of the entire PTO gear and shaft set of whcih out did.

The OEM bearing was $100+ but a common dual race heavy duty roller unit with the same OD and a ID that was ~.030" smaller than the stock PTO shaft was ~$30.  No brainer on the why and what behind that design mod.   

My point is,  not all mods to newer designs or components that use newer and in many ways far superior materials are steps back in the overall operation and function of the machine.   Many are in fact proper fixes to weak or poorly made original designs.    Fabrication and materials technology has came a long way in the  last 60 - 80+ years! 

Same here.   I get called on a few times a year to help people out with fixing odd stuff as well and most of it is because I can do the numbers and engineering plus actual fabrication to replicate or improve a old design or hard/expensive component to use a nwer and likely superior easy to locate modern one.  

When it comes to making something old work better and be more functional I am totally color blind to the brand.   The only thing I see is how the old whatever it was was suposed to work and how to either make it work the same with updated parts or modify it to do what  the machine's owner needs it to do.  

I would bet I am the only guy here that has has ever redone a Farmall M to eliminate the stock ~12 GPM 1000 PSI live hydraulics pump ($700 - $800+ for a replacement)  to have now a 25 - 30 GPM 2500 PSI unit  (<$200 brand new)  that if you walked by  the tractor you would never know it was there.    

Exactly!

That sounds like a fun project! I'd like to update my B. It works, but it could be better. 

I did it a few years ago and posted it over on the Red Power Magazine forum.. I tried  finding it but there search system over there sucks worse than the one here. 

Basically the front bolster on a Farmall M that supports everything ahead of the engine is hollow and not too difficult cut out so that a crankshaft driven pump can be stuffed in there.  

A larger SAE A face or smaller SAE B face pump with side mounted ports fits in perfect without causing  issues if a chain type coupler that has been cut down for minimal shaft lengths (basically the crankshaft and pump shaft need to sit nose to nose)  so that there is room for bottom plate of the steering down shaft to swing past it. 

Ours uses a old WD-9 front axle and power steering off a combine so that shaft on ours is not used.  That gave me room to cheat and put a larger SAE B pump that sites right up against the bottom plate plus required a small spacer set under the radiator to fit. 

Here's a picture of the first pump I put in.  It worked for a little while but the spline shaft coupler stripped out and chewed up the front seal beyond repair so a new pump unit got putin shortly after.   

That's where the conversion to a chain coupler drive came in to fit the new pump that had  keyed shaft instead of spline shaft in but to make it fit each half  had to cut back to bare minimal to fit.  

The system is set for ~1500 PSI so the new pump is running way under its maximum continuous rating.    

As can be seen the front bolster is all hollow and nonstructural anywhere through the middle   Also it's apparently cast steel making it easy to weld to as well!  

I think the pump that in there now is rated for ~25 - 28 GPM @ 1500 RPM which makes the old loader as responsive as any modern tractor or skid steer!   

That's the kind of modifying I like. Discreet, but really improves performance.