exhaust manifold & flange bolts breaking
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Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
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URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=118271
Printed Date: 27 Jul 2025 at 3:45pm
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Topic: exhaust manifold & flange bolts breaking
Posted By: cob_crusher
Subject: exhaust manifold & flange bolts breaking
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2016 at 2:03pm
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seems like i always break off manifold, exhaust manifold & flange bolts. then i have to center drill and left handed drill out remainder. is there a hi temp grease or anything else to keep bolt lubricated ? is it wise to replace with grade 8 ?
------------- ac 200 7080 653 da d90.06 6265 f400 ol 77 1650 jd 4230. the reward of suffering is experience. ignorance is bliss. no muff too tuff. i am only responsible for everything. free whiskey naked women. |
Replies:
Posted By: VFDfireman
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2016 at 2:07pm
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Pick your self up a bottle of high temp anti seize at your local auto shop or ranch store. Grease won't cut it. Harder bolt will just make machine work necessary the next time you have to remove them. Clean the threads good and use anti seize. |
Posted By: brettssac
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2016 at 5:00pm
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Copper silicone works best i work for a caterpillar dealer and all the time removing manifolds off engines i work in field service on big equipment and the copper or high temp silicone doesnt turn to carbon and sieze like anti sieze does over time ------------- BX2,IB,WC,D15IG, D15IIDX3,D17DI,IID,IIID,IVD,D19DX3,D21II,HD3,185,AND GOD ONLY KNOWS THE EQUIPMENT |
Posted By: HudCo
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2016 at 9:48pm
| seems like cooper nuts help alot |
Posted By: j.w.freck
Date Posted: 30 Jan 2016 at 8:39pm
| get some C5a,was developed for the c5a aircraft engine mount bolts,best thing since sliced bread..... |
Posted By: Play Farmer
Date Posted: 30 Jan 2016 at 11:23pm
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I hate copper based antiseize. For low temp applications its ok, for high temp applications it acts more like loctite. Do yourself a favor and find some ceramic based antiseize. Its expensive, about twice the cost of the copper stuff, and worth every penny. Part of my real job used to be selling antiseize. We'd use the ceramic based stuff inside of the turbines in power plants, and the bolts would come out after 2-3 years of operation. I won't have copper in my garage, its bit me more than once. Only ceramic based for me. |
Posted By: B26240
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2016 at 6:39am
| Brett; when you said "high temp silicone" are you talking about the red stuff? And Play Farmer where does a guy buy this ceramic antiseize? can we get sum at napa? Thanks Mark |
Posted By: slip knot
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2016 at 9:10am
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Any anti sieze is better than none. I dont know what I use. the label rusted off the can years ago but its pretty silver colored and thick pastey goop . I haven't had any issues with it yet.
I also would recommend a bit harder bolt. The stock bolt bin stuff is typically pretty weak. IIRC grade 2. those will twist off fairly easily. I'd go with at least a grade 5 and see how that works for you. And stay away from stainless its even worse.
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Posted By: Play Farmer
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2016 at 10:03am
I wouldn't agree with this. As mentioned, in a high heat application copper has a tendency to melt and actually act as a loctite rather than an antiseize - want to ask me how I know.  I also disagree on the harder bolt recommendation - I found that out the same way. Sure enough if a grade 2 bolt seizes up it will break, but it's also not so hard you can't drill it out. All a manifold bolt needs to do is hold enough to keep a gasket sealed, there really isn't any strength or shear resistance needed. Years ago I did a frame off restoration on a '77 F150. I used copper antiseize and grade 8 bolts putting the manifolds back on, biggest mistake I made on the whole deal. When I devoloped a small exhaust leak I figured no big deal - I was wrong. I ended up taking the entire front clip back off, cutting off the bolt heads, and using a rosebud to get the bolts out. I had used the wrong stuff for the application. Lesson learned.
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slip knot wrote:Posted By: Play Farmer
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2016 at 10:12am
Mark, I checked NAPA and it looks like they do have it. I'm pretty sure this is it but the ceramic won't show up in an MSDS as it's not a heavy metal. Take a look at NAPA # NCB51605. http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx/Anti-Seize-Compound-Lubricant-Henkel-9-oz-Loctite-Heavy-Duty/_/R-NCB51605_0191048547" rel="nofollow - http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx/Anti-Seize-Compound-Lubricant-Henkel-9-oz-Loctite-Heavy-Duty/_/R-NCB51605_0191048547 You can also use a Nickle based with good results as well, I like ceramic better. When I used to sell the stuff the demo with the ceramic based was to take a SS bolt, beat up the threads, apply the ceramic based stuff, then thread on a SS nut. If you've ever worked with SS before you know 99.9% of the time those 2 will gall together and you're done. Not with the ceramic stuff - it would just clean up the threads while tightening the nut. This is what I used to sell. I don't sell it anymore, but it's what I buy for my own garage. http://chestertondocs.chesterton.com/Lubricants/tdms785_EN.pdf" rel="nofollow - http://chestertondocs.chesterton.com/Lubricants/tdms785_EN.pdf |
Posted By: wbecker
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2016 at 10:38am
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Use anti seize. And when you are removing a stud or nut, soak with penetrate, then turn it slightly in the tightening direction first, then turn it to loosen slightly, then tighten, do this over and over carefully not to over torque in either direction. ------------- Allis B, IB, Low B, G, D10, JD M, 8KCAB, C152 |
Posted By: HudCo
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2016 at 10:48am
| any one on here took an old cat engine apart those cooper nuts always came off, my wd 45 had cooper nuts on it when i overhauled it 5 years ago, they were put on before my time and they turned off like they were put on yesterday |
Posted By: rpropst
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2016 at 11:06am
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As a general rule it is hard to overcome high heat and time with antiseaze or anything else put on threads. A torch is a mechanics best friend. Nuts are easy. Use a small welding tip heat the nut til it glows red and it will it screw off without twisting the stud off. Bolts and studs are a little harder. Heat studs til the entire stud glows red come back when it has completely cooled stud should screw out. ------------- 1950 snap coupler B 1948 WD 1951Ca 1952B 1952adjustable axel B |
Posted By: j.w.freck
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2016 at 9:14pm
| get some MAALOX.believe it or not it is FAA approved for use on the general electric cfm 56-23 engines on the 70 series dc-8,for the ignitor plugs that will sieze up if you don't use it,it works..... |
Posted By: DaveKamp
Date Posted: 01 Feb 2016 at 7:13am
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When I work with manifold studs, I spray them with a little penetrant the day before, and then, I use a 4" grinder with wire brush to clean the threads, and try a LITTLE wrench effort. If that doesn't yield immediate results, I warm the nuts up cherry red, let them cool for just a few moments, then back them off with wrench. Once the nuts are off, I remove the manifold. If I plan on re-using the studs, I try to leave them alone. if I HAVE to take them out, I warm up each one, let them cool, then warm up again... always heat cycle them several times before backing them out. When I back them out, I use a pair of locking pliers, and place it as close to the block as possible... meaning RIGHT AGAINST. Just before I lock the pliers on, I heat the stud up again, then slip a piece of small-diameter pipe over the end to support the free end of the stud while turning the pliers. I don't break many off anymore. For those that DO break off, I weld a nut to the broken piece, and they usually come out with a wrench. A Grade 3 replacement goes in, following a good thread chasing, and application of any flavor of anti-seize. Realize, that anti-seize compounds are metal-based buffer materials- they improve electrical conductivity, and prevent contaminants from getting into the thread clearance zone... this is what keeps the threads clear, and reduces jamming. To dismantle parts that've been anti-seized, heat always helps, because the metals used are going to be softer than steel. warming up the fasteners not only expands the metal, it compacts the debris between threads, and when that debris is anti-seize, it reduces the material's clearance, allowing the threads to release easier. If you don't have an oxy-acet torch, pick up a MAPP torch kit at your big-box store. It's not as powerful as oxy/acet, but much more powerful than propane. ------------- Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest. |