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Ford FE intake: Iron vs Aluminum? |
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Ed (Ont)
Orange Level Joined: 08 Nov 2009 Location: New Lowell, Ont Points: 1217 |
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[QUOTE=Thad in AR.]You’ll see absolutely no gains of a 4 barrel at low rpm.
Edelbrocks are known for a dead spot. It can be remedied but takes time and money. Machine shop is supposed to get back with me again early next week. He thinks he has a crank, pistons clock and 4 barrel intake. I didn’t ask what the intake was? That is correct Thad. And they are not supposed to and no one is claiming that. The vacuum sec carb runs on the two front barrels only until the rears are pulled open as needed at higher rpm only. That is beauty of the Holley vacuum 4 barrel.
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Thad in AR.
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Arkansas Points: 9273 |
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You’ll see absolutely no gains of a 4 barrel at low rpm.
Edelbrocks are known for a dead spot. It can be remedied but takes time and money. Machine shop is supposed to get back with me again early next week. He thinks he has a crank, pistons clock and 4 barrel intake. I didn’t ask what the intake was? |
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Ed (Ont)
Orange Level Joined: 08 Nov 2009 Location: New Lowell, Ont Points: 1217 |
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Creston the Holley is available with either vacuum secondary or mechanical secondary. Your choice. That 1850 you are looking at would do a good job. For what you are doing I would go with vacuum secondary. You can also get different springs from Holley to get secondary to come in faster or slower although usually the stock one is good. Keep in mind that Ford used Holleys on their heavier trucks back in the day. The 1850 you are looking is vacuum secondary operated by that little pot on the right side. Oh and electric choke is great - one hot wire to hook up. Manual would work for you as well. You won't need choke much down there. A bit in your cold months.
There have been a lot of totally different opinions here. Hope we did not make it more difficult for you. Whatever you do stick to vacuum secondary for that truck application. All these heavier truck applications came that way for good reasons. Edited by Ed (Ont) - 27 Nov 2022 at 8:12am |
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CrestonM
Orange Level Joined: 08 Sep 2014 Location: Oklahoma Points: 8357 |
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Thank you everyone for the replies. All of my dealings with carburetors till now have been tractor carburetors and a one barrel Rochester on a 1951 Chevrolet. So I'm still trying to learn about these 2 and 4 barrels, as they seem to be totally different animals.
In my research, I think I've narrowed it down to these Edelbrock and a Holley models. Edelbrock 1405 with manual choke: Edelbrock 1406 with electric choke: Holley 1850 with manual choke: Holley with electric choke: Also the GM EFI throttle body Dave mentioned: It seems the Holley vs Edelbrock debate is about like the Ford vs GM vs Mopar debate. I think each has their good and bad qualities, although I'm tending to lean toward the Edelbrock. Would it be bad to choose a manual choke? I'm used to using them on all my gas tractors and that 1951 Chevrolet, so it seems like this wouldn't be much different. Is the electric choke as simple as running a power wire from the key switch? I understand we've made a lot of improvements to technology over the last 50 years, but at the end of the day, I like to keep things fairly straightforward and simple. Should 600 cfm be adequate for a mostly stock 390? A question about the secondaries...the Holleys have vacuum and I think the Edelbrocks are mechanical. What are the reasons to choose one over the other? Thanks!
Edited by CrestonM - 27 Nov 2022 at 12:48am |
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CrestonM
Orange Level Joined: 08 Sep 2014 Location: Oklahoma Points: 8357 |
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Right now I'm debating whether I want a double pumper or vacuum secondaries. I hear good and bad about both. Good to know you like it!
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CrestonM
Orange Level Joined: 08 Sep 2014 Location: Oklahoma Points: 8357 |
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I wonder why that would be?
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CrestonM
Orange Level Joined: 08 Sep 2014 Location: Oklahoma Points: 8357 |
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Haha no I don't think it will, I just want to try to get the "best possible for my budget". I know it's probably not going to be "good".
Edited by CrestonM - 27 Nov 2022 at 12:45am |
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CrestonM
Orange Level Joined: 08 Sep 2014 Location: Oklahoma Points: 8357 |
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Been looking at a 1406. It's 600 cfm vs the 1407 at 750 cfm. I think for my application the 600 might be more appropriate, but I'm not sure on that.
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CrestonM
Orange Level Joined: 08 Sep 2014 Location: Oklahoma Points: 8357 |
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I think for sure I'm going to upgrade to the Edelbrock Performer aluminum intake. Unless I find a good 4 barrel iron intake locally for a low price.
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jvin248
Silver Level Joined: 17 Jan 2022 Location: Detroit Points: 267 |
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. How smooth are the flow passages in those two manifolds? That will change performance. As far as the carb selection... See what this guy did. He has a whole series on this build, a lawnmower carb on a V8, the trick was an electronic controller. It's fun and check the channel series. .
Edited by jvin248 - 26 Nov 2022 at 12:50pm |
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Thad in AR.
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Arkansas Points: 9273 |
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May have found you a crank, forged pistons and an intake. Will know in a couple days.
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plummerscarin
Orange Level Access Joined: 22 Jun 2015 Location: ia Points: 3112 |
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Also had a Holley on my 390 in the Cyclone. A 750 double pumper. 0 trouble and pegged the speedo a couple times |
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im4racin
Orange Level Joined: 12 Jun 2017 Location: Garrison ND Points: 825 |
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Since you are this far in I would recommend a Holley sniper efi. It’s a little spendy but well worth it
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Ed (Ont)
Orange Level Joined: 08 Nov 2009 Location: New Lowell, Ont Points: 1217 |
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Holley has all the right kickdoown brackets for Chev, Ford and Mopar. Just tell them what application you have.
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DMiller
Orange Level Access Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Hermann, Mo Points: 29459 |
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Guy I received the KW From is onto GM Racing engines, was explaining the other day, has a 1000hp balanced and blueprinted engine for a truck he wants to build, has almost as much in it as I have IN TOTAL in the KW. Dropped $10k ADDITIONAL to what already had In It, on it in a month and that is JUST the engine.
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IBWD MIke
Orange Level Joined: 08 Apr 2012 Location: Newton Ia. Points: 3440 |
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I did some more looking at parts for these things, wow, there is some really cool parts available nowadays! Holly checkbook though!! It adds up fast. That's why I moved away from the hot rod scene when I did.
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tadams(OH)
Orange Level Access Joined: 17 Sep 2009 Location: Jeromesville, O Points: 9636 |
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Make sure the 4 barrel carb has the stuff for the kick down from the transmission to attach to, my son put a 4 barrel on my 1975 and it didn't have the brackets for the kick down. It's not problem for me because I don't need any extra for pulling.
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Thad in AR.
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Arkansas Points: 9273 |
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I have an Edelbrock on my 351 Windsor.
It’s electric choke and starts and runs like an EFI. That said it just doesn’t seem right. I’ve changed a few things and got it better but still not good. The low end was much better with a 2100 2 barrel. I’ll be switching back. |
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IBWD MIke
Orange Level Joined: 08 Apr 2012 Location: Newton Ia. Points: 3440 |
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I always liked Holley's when I was in the 'Hot Rod' phase of my life. Easy to tune and somehow I never had the power valve trouble people talk about.
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Ed (Ont)
Orange Level Joined: 08 Nov 2009 Location: New Lowell, Ont Points: 1217 |
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Yes Mike that would be an excellent choice. As I said stick to a 2 plane like that for what Creston is doing.That is the one I would use. And yes I know it is Edelbrock. Lol. Their intakes are great.
Edited by Ed (Ont) - 25 Nov 2022 at 8:06am |
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Ed (Ont)
Orange Level Joined: 08 Nov 2009 Location: New Lowell, Ont Points: 1217 |
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I got 19.5 mpg with my car driving from north of Toronto to Columbus Ohio to the good guys meet. That is per Imperial gallon so about 16 mile per US gal. 3.50 gear and overdrive trans (.68) So the Holley mileage is good. My buddy has almost identical car. He bought the Edelbrock that you are talking about and was not happy with the performance. We played with it a bit. He finally got a Holley 650 mechanical secondary. We put it on. No other changes! Took it for a test drive. Never saw anyone so happy. You couldn't keep the smile off his face. He does a lot of autocross events at the Goodguys shows. You could have bought a cheap almost new Edelbrock that day.
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IBWD MIke
Orange Level Joined: 08 Apr 2012 Location: Newton Ia. Points: 3440 |
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This one would work great for what you want. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-7105 When I was young I had a pretty good 390. The intake was off a 428 'police interceptor', I think. It was cast iron, worked great, just heavy. Pretty sure the ones on 428 Cobra Jet's were the same but made of aluminum. Half the weight probably. |
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PaulB
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Rocky Ridge Md Points: 4408 |
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The question that keeps coming to mind for me is: "You think a FORD can get good fuel mileage in any fashion?". Back in the 70s a friend of mine got a new Ford 3/4 ton P/U at the same time I brought a new Dodge 3/4 ton P/U with nearly identical specifications and his Ford barely got half the mileage I was getting. I agree with many others that in today's world the Edelbrock (Carter AFB clone) would be a better choice for a street carburetor. As for the manifold there are many designs available that are made for street/economy.
Holley's are fine for racing and power, not so much for economy. They are simpler and easer to tune than Edelbrock's/Carter's, although you can never get a Holley tuned to give both power and ideal economy. The power valve blowout problem has been addressed by Holley and New ones don't have that issue. Edited by PaulB - 25 Nov 2022 at 4:34pm |
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If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY |
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Ed (Ont)
Orange Level Joined: 08 Nov 2009 Location: New Lowell, Ont Points: 1217 |
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Holley is still the best carb but as in all things there are various opinions as you can see above. Price is close on all. Holley is easiest to work on and all adjustments easier. Parts readily available. They make carb to fit any application and have been making them forever. Fuel mileage is as good as any. If you want to go EFI go Holley as well. These guys know their fuel systems!!!! I am running a 650 vacuum secondary on a 372 cu in sbc. Happened to dyne 461 hp and 450 ft/lbs torque.
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exSW
Orange Level Joined: 21 Jul 2017 Location: Pennsylvania Points: 914 |
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Holley's Demon is their version of the old Carter Thermoquad. Another set it and forget it carb.
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Learning AC...slowly
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DMiller
Orange Level Access Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Hermann, Mo Points: 29459 |
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Edelbrock AFB Clone is a sweet carb, simple and less issues than a Holley.
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dp7000
Bronze Level Joined: 26 Sep 2021 Location: Winchester Kent Points: 133 |
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Edelbrock carbs are good. Trouble free. I’ve got a couple. #1407 or 1408 I think. Probably best cost effective way to go.
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darrel in ND
Orange Level Joined: 22 Nov 2009 Location: Hebron, ND Points: 8580 |
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Well over 30 years ago, I built and dropped a 390 into my '69, half ton four wheel drive pickup. That's one project that I did that was the equivalent of a "blind squirrel finding a nut!"
Everything about that pickup was pure pleasure. Had a four speed manual, 3:54 rear end ratios, and would run like a scalded dog! It didn't have a low range transfer case, but nonetheless would climb like a mountain goat. Posi rear end helped there, but no shortage of power. On the highway, would bury the needle on the 100 MPH speedometer! Still have the pickup out here, turned it over to my son. Hasn't been run in quite a few years, lack of time, and interest in Allis chalmers stuff has kind of taken precedence over it. I had an aluminum edelbrock Sp2p intake manifold on it, and not one regret in the world over that. Now a carburetor man, I most definitely am not! Tried a Holly on it, but could not find enough Holly gurus to keep it adjusted. Some GM nut friends of mine talked me into adapting it to a Quadra Jet carb, and I know that a GM carb on a Ford is wrong on every level, but it truly was a trouble free carb. Not saying that I recommend it, but it worked for me. Lot of things about it, wish I knew then what I know now. The absolute best that it ever run was when I was running an old late 50's vintage auto lite four barrel off a police interceptor car (ok, there's an "old school" term) on it, but with the secondaries sticking open a couple times, I scrapped that carb in a hurry for safety sake. Looking back, I since realized that I most likely could have had the butterfly rod pivots drilled out and re-bushinged to alleviate that problem. Would definitely have given that a try. Anyway, nuff rambling from me, I hope that you have most successful results with this build. Darrel |
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fixer1958
Orange Level Joined: 13 Feb 2010 Location: kansas Points: 2435 |
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Stay away from a Holley. Edelbrock is what I would go with. A lot less problems.
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exSW
Orange Level Joined: 21 Jul 2017 Location: Pennsylvania Points: 914 |
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Unless you want to become a Holley guru use an Edelbrock. I've run an 390/four speed/ 4.10 F-350 in daily farm use and that Holley was a constant issue. Edelbrocks are set it and forget it carbs. I've slso used several Edelbrock alumnium intakes on farm trucks with zero issues.
Edited by exSW - 24 Nov 2022 at 7:03am |
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Learning AC...slowly
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