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Battery Mystery

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Dave(inMA) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave(inMA) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Battery Mystery
    Posted: 22 May 2019 at 7:08am
Good morning. I have a 1.5 year old 6v battery that tests 6.5 volts and shows "Good" on a load test. Installed it in my CA - wouldn't light the lights or turn over the engine...not even a burp. Clamps were clean and tight. Heavy cables. Replaced it with another battery and the tractor spun over and fired.

Is it possible for a battery to test "Good" yet not work? Or is the load test not the gold standard for checking batteries?

Thanks!
Dave
WC, CA, D14, WD45
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Lonn View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2019 at 7:28am
With the battery disconnected, check each cell with an electrolyte tester (hydrometer) after it has been charged for a bit. They'll probably all show good. Then let it set over night and check again. They should be equal or very close to it. Replace the liquid from the hydrometer to the same cell you drew it from or you'll mess the whole battery up! And keep baking soda nearby for any spills! And don't spill!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2019 at 7:29am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill_MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2019 at 10:14am
Have you put a voltmeter on it while on the tractor and pulling the starter rod? Have you checked voltage at the starter/switches/lights with it hooked up to see if voltage is getting there? Even though the other battery works it would be interesting to see how the dead battery acts on the tractor.
1951 WD #78283, 1918 Case 28x50 Thresher #76738, Case Centennial B 2x16 Plow
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Stan IL&TN View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stan IL&TN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2019 at 1:30pm
The simplest answer is usually the most correct. Replace the battery.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2019 at 1:36pm
Originally posted by Stan IL&TN Stan IL&TN wrote:

The simplest answer is usually the most correct. Replace the battery.
True.  It is very odd though that the battery was actually load tested as good, and wouldn't even bump the engine a tad.  Makes ya' wonder.
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Steve in NJ View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve in NJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2019 at 1:44pm
Batteries are fluky. They can test good on a draw test and not be good in service. It probably has a cell that's ready to fail or is weak. Its the same as a Generator that "motors" when tested, but doesn't charge when put into service....
39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2019 at 2:45pm
Originally posted by Steve in NJ Steve in NJ wrote:

Batteries are fluky. They can test good on a draw test and not be good in service. It probably has a cell that's ready to fail or is weak. Its the same as a Generator that "motors" when tested, but doesn't charge when put into service....
How do it know?LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LouSWPA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2019 at 3:05pm
whoa up a minuet.....are you absolutely sure your connections on the tractor are good? you are only dealing with 6v, so even a itty bitty resistance at a connection can give you grief.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DougS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2019 at 3:49pm
Originally posted by LouSWPA LouSWPA wrote:

whoa up a minuet.....are you absolutely sure your connections on the tractor are good? you are only dealing with 6v, so even a itty bitty resistance at a connection can give you grief.

This.

Put a voltmeter across the ground cable at the battery post and a clean part of the frame. If it shows 6 volts, your connection at the frame is kaput. This is one place that can have a nice tight connection and almost infinite resistance. Remove the bolt and use a powered wire brush and clean all rust down to bare shiny metal. Reconnect the cable with a new bolt and see if it works.


Edited by DougS - 22 May 2019 at 3:50pm
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Dave(inMA) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave(inMA) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2019 at 4:20pm
Thanks for all the suggestions and comments. I'll check the specific gravity of each cell as well as the quality of the ground connection. Maybe, as a couple suggested, the battery gods are NOT happy with this one!

Dave
WC, CA, D14, WD45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave(inMA) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2019 at 5:39pm
Well, I am perplexed. Here's what happened: Specific gravity of the cells tested as 1.250, 1.275, 1.250 - not quite in the "Good" range but close. And the readings are very consistent. Put the battery back in the CA - engine cranked and fired right up. What's different between yesterday and today? Nothing except the passage of time...at least nothing that I can account for. Very weird. Sorry to have troubled you guys. Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CTuckerNWIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2019 at 6:22pm
I had a similar problem with my 45 a couple years ago. I KNEW the battery was good cause it was only about 10 years old Wink
 I took the cables off the battery and ran my brush up inside and it worked once, then went back to acting up.
 I then removed the cables and brought a light out to the shed so I could see better and find what looks like a black oxide coating on the inside of the clamps and some on the posts. I very vigorously cleaned till I had shiny lead, clamped things up and coated everything with a layer of gun grease. It's been fine ever since.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DiyDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2019 at 8:27pm
Sometimes a battery can have a bad internal connection, between the plates or to the poles, that will go intermittent, or not work, at all.  Kubotas and other small diesels seem to get this problem, I personally think its the vibration...Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerald J. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2019 at 9:45pm
The battery posts and connectors need polishing or scraping to bare metal twice a year in a 6 volt system because of the intolerance for a bit of series resistance.

Gerald J.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2019 at 6:15am
Originally posted by DiyDave DiyDave wrote:

Sometimes a battery can have a bad internal connection, between the plates or to the poles, that will go intermittent, or not work, at all.  Kubotas and other small diesels seem to get this problem, I personally think its the vibration...Wink
There's a joke in there but I ain't sayin it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave(inMA) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2019 at 4:05pm
I'm with Lonn! The good news is that the battery is working.....at least for now! Perhaps changing out the battery a couple of times polished up the cable clamps/posts. I double checked them when I reinstalled the battery and they looked good.

Dave
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DiyDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2019 at 5:59pm
Originally posted by Lonn Lonn wrote:

Originally posted by DiyDave DiyDave wrote:

Sometimes a battery can have a bad internal connection, between the plates or to the poles, that will go intermittent, or not work, at all.  Kubotas and other small diesels seem to get this problem, I personally think its the vibration...Wink
There's a joke in there but I ain't sayin it

PM it to me . Lonn, I'm all ears...Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray54 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2019 at 8:15pm
I just warrantied a Napa battery for a lose plate inside. Sometimes it would read 12.5 and then 9.46 and no crank. At first thought it had loose wire dragging it down,charge and us it. But anothe clue, Wink when I had a extra hand (yes I need some clips) hold prob on each terminal then tap battery with your hand. You could see voltage jump around. Good batteriers don't do that. I just kinda stimbled on this, hope I don't find out its not that easy.

The Napa store has been real good through 3 own/manager changes in the last 6 or 7 years. So till they get me Angry really really Angry be the main place to shop for the stuff they can get. From other times talking parts stores,Wink they even have a young kid or 2 that is not afraid of all the old,old one offs that some cheap skate used cause it was there.

But some days it's all just trouble. The loader tractor last cause me no end of hair pulling last fall. Finally cleaning EVERYTHING that had to do with the ground cable to frame Wink and shiny new cap screw. Worked every time till a month ago. The ground cable hand rooted out under the insolation. I wanted to start it then so used the cheapo fix it terminal.WinkLOL So it will be fun another time (don't look Shameless) unless I spend real money on a NEW CABLE.Wink Don't bet you money on me cause I will have a exccuse till it will not start next time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BigGuy1000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2019 at 9:57pm
I have seen this problem on 6V pos ground systems because of the different sizes of the battery cable clamps and battery posts, a POP and smoke puff from the battery box, then no crank! 
 If you look carefully (when at your local auto or farm supply store) at a new 6V battery and at the new cables you will see that the + terminal of the battery is slightly larger than the minus  terminal. The new flat braided ground cable clamp is sized to fit the minus terminal of the battery, and the new round wire starter cable is sized to fit the + terminal of the battery.  However, on a 6V pos gnd system you cannot use the cables in this way because the round cable will not fit thru the battery box exit hole and thru the switchbox on a WD, and the flat braided cable is not insulated, as it must be to safely exit the battery box. The cable end on the flat braided cable can be pried open with a large screwdriver so that it will go on the plus terminal, and the round wire cable to the starter can be clamped down by turning the clamp nut down a lot, but in both cases the contact area inside the clamp where it actually touches the posts is not as large as it should be, leading to poor or no cranking.  
Take the clamp bolts and nuts off both cable ends, clean all, then pry them open slightly, just enough so that they will go down on the battery posts as far as possible, tap down gently with a hammer on a wood block to the clamp, replace bolts and nuts and retighten.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bradleytrench Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2019 at 7:36am
Originally posted by DougS DougS wrote:

Originally posted by LouSWPA LouSWPA wrote:

whoa up a minuet.....are you absolutely sure your connections on the tractor are good? you are only dealing with 6v, so even a itty bitty resistance at a connection can give you grief.

This.

Put a voltmeter across the ground cable at the battery post and a clean part of the frame. If it shows 6 volts, your connection at the frame is kaput. This is one place that can have a nice tight connection and almost infinite resistance. Remove the bolt and use a powered wire brush and clean all rust down to bare shiny metal. Reconnect the cable with a new bolt and see if it works.


Damn, I'm impressed. Someone knows how to do a voltage drop test. This is something I teach in Don Bradley's why my tractor wont start class. Nothing like seeing how strong the army men are while they do their work. Bobby MO

Edited by Bradleytrench - 24 May 2019 at 7:37am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mechanicmarty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2019 at 8:35am
Carbon pile testers work best to test batteries, I’ve used all kinds of other testers, including digital fancy units and they have shown me a battery is “Good” when a carbon pile tester shows it’s bad. They are 250$cad a piece, but they are worth there weight in gold.
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