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49 Allis g timing issue?

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Bob B View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bob B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2019 at 3:37pm
Update: did compression test with the slow cranking starter today. Got up to 30 psi after about three revolutions and then the starter switch started smoking.

Desperately needing something to go right on this project soon.

Suggestions please

Thanks
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Dick L View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dick L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2019 at 4:05pm
The switch is held on with two screws. It might be full of bugs and stuff. If the smoke came out of the starter that is a whole different deal.
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Stan IL&TN View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stan IL&TN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2019 at 4:26pm
I would think you should have more than 30psi with 3 revolutions. Cylinders may be dry from sitting so long. Remove plugs and shoot some oil in each cylinder then retest compression.
1957 WD45 dad's first AC

1968 one-seventy

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Bob B View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bob B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2019 at 4:32pm
Switch is new. Will try small amount of oil in cylinders next.

Thanks
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Stan IL&TN View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stan IL&TN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2019 at 5:26pm
Bob you can also leave out all tha spark plugs when you do the compression test as it will be easier on the starter to turn the engine over. Also put throttle wide open for the test.
1957 WD45 dad's first AC

1968 one-seventy

1956 F40 Ferguson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bob B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2019 at 10:15pm
Took plugs out and tried again. Got 50 on #1, 60 on #2 and then the starter switch crackled and sparked and smoked. Not sure but seems to be burning the very center of the pircr inside switch that moves when lever pushes the button. The slanted copper button on the starter has a groove burned in it where the switch makes contact.
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Dick L View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dick L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2019 at 5:54am
You can have a new stud put in at a starter shop or you can file the stud some to get a better contact.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bob B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2019 at 7:52am
Am I correct in assuming the slanted part of the stud is oriented so the push button makes full contact with the slanted portion of stud? It looks like the very center of the push button piece has been melted some, which may have been smoke I was seeing?
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Bob B View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bob B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2019 at 2:15pm
Got the starter and switch to cooperate long enough to get compression readings for each cylinder. #1@50, #2@60, #3@35, #4@40. Would these readings indicate there should be enough to pull air/fuel mix into cylinders?

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Dick L View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dick L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2019 at 7:15pm
I am now thinking you might be missing the venturi in the carburetor.

Dang auto correct. I didn't catch it the first time but this time I had to change the I from E back to I three times before it put the red line under it for me to add it to my dictionary. I bet several was wondering where the venture was.

The rotating engine pumps air in thru the carburetor which without the proper size venturi it increase the vacuum on the feeder tube to draw fuel thru the jets it will not get fuel into the firing chamber. The venturi in that carburetor is not very large.

I don't have a drawing for that carburetor but this will show where it is located.

   
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Bob B View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bob B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2019 at 8:44pm
Venturi is there. Would low compression possibly be the problem in not getting fuel mix to the plugs?
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Stan IL&TN View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stan IL&TN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2019 at 12:35am
I was always told that you need 80-90 psi minimum for an engine to run. I'm far from an expert but I believe that is the main problem. If you can get it started those numbers should go up some.
1957 WD45 dad's first AC

1968 one-seventy

1956 F40 Ferguson
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Stan IL&TN View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stan IL&TN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2019 at 12:45am
Low compression can be caused by worn rings, worn valve seats, sticking valves or valves with zero clearance and keeping the valve from closing all the way. Surface rust on the cylinder walls and the valve seats will also allow compression to escape. A bad head gasket might also do it but it is unlikely that it would affect all the cylinders. A complete engine overhaul may be in your future. Just saying.

Edited by Stan IL&TN - 16 May 2019 at 12:47am
1957 WD45 dad's first AC

1968 one-seventy

1956 F40 Ferguson
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Dick L View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dick L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2019 at 5:18am
With what compression he has it should at the very least sputter and make some smoke. It does have get fuel to the plugs to do so.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bob B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2019 at 3:49pm
Well, tried once again with starter fluid and the starter switch burned out completely after just a couple revolutions. Metal connector on the switch button burned thru and came off the post. Never a chug, pop, or smoke from exhaust.

Hate to even think about hand cranking trying to set timing right, get fuel, etc.

Sure wanted to get this to run by myself (with help from this forum, of course).

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Stan IL&TN View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stan IL&TN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2019 at 7:16pm
As far as the starter issue goes I'm thinking either the starter needed to be rebuilt as it is obviously pulling too many amps or that engine is that tight and hard to turn. I would pull the spark plugs out and using the hand crank I would manually turn over the engine. It should turn pretty darn easy with the plugs out. If it is hard to turn then that is not good and another indication the engine needs to be pulled and gone through.
1957 WD45 dad's first AC

1968 one-seventy

1956 F40 Ferguson
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john2189 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote john2189 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2019 at 9:59pm
Could he have a stuck open valve or two?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2019 at 5:47am
compression is too low to start it, there's a lot of 'dead 'weight to push with a wimpy bang. Need to remove valve cover and plugs then slowly rotate engine and CONFIRM all 8 valves are going up and down.
That engine does not have sleeves in it, though you can buy them and have installed($$$$).
get the starter system fixed, NO amount of hand cranking is better ,and it's a LOT safer !!
You need 4 things to get her 'up and running'.
1) good,proper spark
2) good gas
3) ballpark timing
4) compression
having one or two of these slighly off ,it'll still cough and maybe run, but 4 out of 4  is trouble.
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Dick L View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dick L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2019 at 6:13am
No valve cover to remove.





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Dick L View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dick L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2019 at 6:31am
To get an accurate compression test on a non running engine that has set for a long period it has to rotate at starter speed with oil in the plug hole ten or more revolutions. I would also run the starter without plugs until I had oil pressure on the gage. The starter needs to work to get a dry engine lubed up or pulled for a distance.

I would still open up the carburetor to make sure it had the venturi. Without it fuel can not get drawn thu the discharge jet. No fuel, No fire in the hole. Same if the carburetor has a plug somewhere.
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Stan IL&TN View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stan IL&TN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2019 at 7:57am
Hey Dick you would think that the piston rings would get snagged coming up out of the block like that.............ok I'll go stand in the corner with my fingers crossed now.😳
1957 WD45 dad's first AC

1968 one-seventy

1956 F40 Ferguson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bob B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2019 at 8:20am
Thanks. Will try to get starter to a shop for thorough checkout.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bob B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2019 at 8:29am
Thanks again for all the advice. Opened the carb, Venturi is there and really appreciate the continued education am getting here.

If I pull it, do you mean try to pull start it or just pull it with plugs out and everything off to get engine lubed up?

Thanks to all. Feeling hopeful again.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HoughMade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2019 at 9:24am
I agree with the above advice to get it spinning before trying to start.  There's a good chance you will see your compression rise if you can get it spinning.  Plugs out, a little light oil in the cylinders and a willing youngster to crank and crank is one way.  A big drill rigged up to the crank snout is another.  My last choice would be the starter itself as it seems like a weak link in your case.

Edited by HoughMade - 17 May 2019 at 9:25am
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Dick L View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dick L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2019 at 11:06am
I would pull it with the plugs out to get the oil thru the engine and cylinder walls. I would be a pain but you could pull it to get a good compression reading if your tester has a check valve to hold the high pressure reading on the gage. Always easier to use the starter.
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Dick L View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dick L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2019 at 11:09am
Originally posted by Stan IL&TN Stan IL&TN wrote:

Hey Dick you would think that the piston rings would get snagged coming up out of the block like that.............ok I'll go stand in the corner with my fingers crossed now.😳


The pistons have to be installed from the bottom. I decided it would be easier to put the rings on with the pistons up and use a ring compressor the same as any other engine that they are put in from the top.
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