The ones Allis Chalmers did not build

I was told the proto 7080 had that engine but the trans and rear didnt handle the low speed high tourque that engine produced.  So up went the rps on the 426 and the rest is history.  This may not be totaly correct but its what I was told.

They should never have farmed out building tractors.  The 440  and the 160 should have been West Allis tractors.  I never figured out why they brought in a motor to put in the 175 and then brought in a tractor to put around the 433.  AC was the benchmark for little tractors with the B and C and then gave up on that segment. As far as what was never built, the 8095 should have come out with the rest of the line, same with the 6095 and a 6050 and a powershift for the 6000 series.  A 4w350 and a 4w400 would have been nice.  

Back in 87 when I was chairman of the International Silo Association, we were a part of FIEI (Farm and Industrial Equipment Institute). When we met in Chicago (Wrigley building), I met a former A-C enineering exective who was working at FIEI. He said that A-C always had a high cost transmission plant and Case up the road in Racine had a very modern an efficient transmission plant. He was aways trying to get A-C to outsource the 6000 series transmission from Case but instead they inported a Renault.

Maybe if they had adopted the 3pt hitch, or paid rights fees if necessary, when the WD came out in 1948 and skipped the snap coupler phase. I think the G with a B/C/CA engine would've been the way to go. And of course, more gears or a hi-lo, in the all the tractors, B,C,CA,WC,WD,WD45 etc... < id="gwProxy" ="">< ="jsCall;" id="jsProxy" ="">

    I am a "Bean Counter".  Don't blame the bean counters.  It nice to build tractors, but you have to make a profit while doing it.  Bean counters are  needed to keep the sales and production people realistic in their ideas.  Don't get me wrong,  I am an AC lover and grew up driving a Model C  (The best little tractor ever built).  I wish that Agco would remain an AC company, but market factors may make that impossible.  I don't believe the gentlemen from Germany would eliminate a line if he thought it could make money for the company.  AC had many problems, and design Or lack of, casused most of their problems.

I think AC was getting it together at the very end.  The 6000 and 8000 series would stand toe to toe with any competitor.  Unfortunately a lot of equipment from before that did not have a good reputation.  Continual changing of suppliers for small tractors probably didn't help either.

different styling on the 7000 series for me

i would never sell those blue prints i have a book on every ac built and the ones that wasnt ill look in it.

TedBuiskerN.IL. wrote: I would like to say i wish they made a D-18 to make the numbering system complete but they didn't. Oh wait yeah they did! LOL I have the original Allis-Chalmers blue prints right from the factory for it. I was working for an old implement dealership here about 5 years ago and a long time customer invited me out to the farm to show me his "old" allis. Sure enough in the corner of the barn sits a D-18. Weird looking duck. He never was quite clear on how he got it, but he said it has been sitting there about 35-40 years under the old army tarp. He is the one who gave me the blueprints. He made it sound as if his family farm was part of the "far west" proving grounds for allis. I thought it was the only one ever made, until the local allis dealership asked me if i had ever heard of one. They said an ol boy from down south called looking for a part, they had on the dealer network. According to that ol boy they made 4 of them. He uses his on a regular basis, and i guess if i ever win the lottery i will remake one from these blueprints. LOL I know that the tractor still sits in the barn and that the gentleman is still alive. I offered to purchase the tractor when he showed it to me, and he just said "good things come to those who wiat" So maybe i will go up with the trailer some day and bring it home. If any one would ever like to see the blueprints feel free to zap me an email and i will bring them to a show. m.pehl@hotmail.com I have been asked once if I would sell the prints and i have no idea what they would be worth. It would be interesting to get some ideas, considering i have them in my apartment. I have renters insurance but the $30K coverage i have i don't think would begin to cover the value of the prints. Let me know what you guys think they may be worth. I would like to get them insured properly.   Thanks, Matt Pehl Davis, Il

rooster wrote: the d18 was about the same as the d17.D262 motor same motor as the D17.the D19 is the D18 but with a diesel and turbo.there was a production of d18 but nobody bought them.

175 Narrow front w snap coupler
Snap couplers on all 100 series tractors.Then my grandfather and father could not have used that as an excuse as to not buy a new tractor in early 70's.Not like they would have anyway.Dad always said they would buy a new one if it would hook up to all our snap coupler equipt.

Edited by Pat the Plumber CIL - 18 Dec 2010 at 1:56pm

Are we all talking about what would be a "true" D-18 or just the D-17 cotton-picker tractors?

AC did have tractors with larger displacement than the 426,    8550, and 4W-305 they  had the 731 cu in from the N7 but with twin turbos.  this was a fantastic motor, hard on fuel but lasted a lot longer than a 426,   they should have put a version of this in the N6,  Gleaners would be a lot more popular today if it wasn't for the black eye they got with all the early N6's sold.

My list
N6 with 731 cu in
4W-375 with an N14 and Twin Disc power shift
and finally KHD should have kept production of the 6 and 8000's series and just changed to the Deutz air cooled motors

Gleaner1 the N7 did not have the 731, It had the 516ci 685I. The 731 was the 6120T.

I can understand the complaints of the outsourcing machinery, but some of the outsourced products were good machines.  The 160 is a decent and dependable tractor and were good sellers for some dealers that had a good small tractor business yet at that time.  For A-C to build an up-to-date transmission for the D15 would have been cost prohibitive.  I love my D15s but I understand where A-C was coming from there.

As far as the Perkins in the 170-175s, using the A-C four cylinder would have made sense, but that motor has been a very good reliable motor for those tractors and parts are CHEAP!  Several years ago I was overhauling my C, at the same time a customer came in and ordered an overhaul kit for his 175, when it came down to it the 175 parts were less than my C!!!  I tell ya, that hurt! lol

It would have been interesting to see A-C keep up with the hay and forage division, but that market was narrowing, I would have rather seen them buy out New Holland or Hesston to get a more competitive forage line.  The large round balers they messed with were Hawk Bilt balers and they were a joke!  I was always told they did not enter the large baler market because they were sued to max for Roto Baler mishaps.  They were evidently getting out of the forage line as well so that could have put a damper on the whole large baler idea too. 

Roto Balers had such a dark cloud over them that even when Deutz bought out A-C they would send any Roto Baler owner a kit including updated safety decals and an operators and safety manual.  I love Roto Balers and they are one of the best designed and most rugged machines built but, please, if you run one, keep your hands out of it while it is in operation!

One of the former salesman at the dealership where I work at always talked about going to a 6000 series sales meeting in West Allis.  He said they had a 15 speed powershift transmission designed for these tractors that was slated to come out.  This would have been ahead of its time as well. 

I just wish Deutz would have kept the color, factory and people around that made these great products.  They could have put their engine in them, thats the only thing they had worth a darn anyway!  They could have had a great product lineup and brought in their own products that A-C didnt have to fill the gaps such as their hay equipment.  I was always told you could tell the guys from Deutz,but you couldnt tell them much!  I wonder if Marty's last name isnt Deutz instead of Richenhaenblubbennnnnnnnn

lol
Jim