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Need info... track loaders

Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Construction and other equipment
Forum Description: everything else with orange (or yellow) paint
URL: http://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=35920
Printed Date: 10 Dec 2017 at 6:27pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Need info... track loaders
Posted By: Daehler
Subject: Need info... track loaders
Date Posted: 22 Aug 2011 at 2:17pm
Im looking at getting a track loader, wanting to get something over a 100 horse and 20,000 pound , thinking about a Allis 7G, but dont know anything about them. Need specs on the Allis models and years they were built. What would be the size of a 955 L CAT? I need all the info I can get, thanks.

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8070FWA,7080 BlackBelly, 7045,2 200s,D19,D17,G, WD,45,UC,7 AC mowers and lots more!
"IT TAKES 3 JD's TO OUT DO AN ALLIS, 2 TO MATCH IT IN THE FIELD AND 1 FOR PARTS!"



Replies:
Posted By: orangeman
Date Posted: 22 Aug 2011 at 2:51pm
AC 7G would meet the 20,000 pnd. criteria but would not make the 100 horse criteria.  Nor would a cat 955 meet the 100 horsepower criteria.  If 100 horse is your criteria you had better look at a 977 or bigger Cat with turbo.  

Sad to say, but the production numbers of AC track loaders over 100 horsepower would be slim here in 2011.  Figuring in the time which has past since they were produced, you would be looking for a long time unless you happened to be in the right place at the right time.  Good luck in your efforts.  Would like to see pics of whatever you get, hope though it is an Allis.  How about and HD 19 Track Loader, seems that would crack the 100 HP criteria?


Posted By: gemdozer
Date Posted: 22 Aug 2011 at 5:03pm
 The HD7GB has a six cylinder motor D3500 and should be like 955L or better


Posted By: Reed(UT)
Date Posted: 22 Aug 2011 at 5:56pm
We have a Fiat-Allis FL10c that is about 130 Hp, 30,000 lbs. It has been a good machine.

It may be for sale, if you are interested.


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2 WD45s, 190XT III, 72 AllCrop, Bunch of snap-coupler stuff. Looking for a B and CA


Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 22 Aug 2011 at 7:11pm
FL 7 should do most things one would want to do , the weight class your looking in isn't the thing as much as the work that can be done with HP delivered.
 Like in dozers my FD5 will outwork a D4 with no problems at all and at a lower price to operate both in fuel and in overall machine cost.
 The move away from track loaders has hastened as skid steer machines have filled the gap of smaller machines and excavators have taken over in loading and digging in places where track loaders were supreme in the past.
 


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Two fools in this world. A millionaire who thinks that by hoarding money he can accumulate real power, the other the reformer who thinks he can take money from one class it will solve everything


Posted By: Daehler
Date Posted: 22 Aug 2011 at 9:14pm
Im looking at using it to clean up fence rows and help keep control on tree limb in the field. Not gonna forget to mention clean out cattle lots. How big is a FD7 and what motors do they have? I aint gonna lie, Im clueless in this area. What the price ranges do any of the loaders run? Im seeing them from $7,000 for something like a FL to $17,000 for a 12GB, is that about right?

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8070FWA,7080 BlackBelly, 7045,2 200s,D19,D17,G, WD,45,UC,7 AC mowers and lots more!
"IT TAKES 3 JD's TO OUT DO AN ALLIS, 2 TO MATCH IT IN THE FIELD AND 1 FOR PARTS!"


Posted By: Mactractor
Date Posted: 23 Aug 2011 at 4:22am
  7G and 7G series B both over 100 engine horsepower. 7000 engine in 7G, 105hp. 3500 engine in 7G series B gotta be way over the 100 mark.


Posted By: orangeman
Date Posted: 23 Aug 2011 at 2:59pm
Mactractor: Thanks for keeping us on our toes, I was thinking about the HP on the 6000 engine.  The reference books show the 7G at 107 HP and max horsepower of the 7000 direct injection at 150 HP.  

I can now remove the egg from my face.  

I guess my perspective would not be so much on the horsepower criteria but the gearing of the machine and how the OPERATOR uses the horsepower bigger is not always better. 


Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 23 Aug 2011 at 3:10pm
For what your thinking of you sure don't need that big of a machine as far as 20,000 # or 100HP machine, less your trying to push over 14" diameter trees.
 Bigger isn't always better as as size goes up it seems repairs do also, then moving it becomes the next problem.
 My FD5 has cleared a lot of land and at 70 HP works great. In the past my HD5G at 50 HP has also done many fence rows and barn and feed lots.
 Machines with a torque converter and power shift are just quicker to respond over direct drive machines. In fact even the HD4 loader I had worked good for brush and small trees, then any machines used in conjunction with the 715B TLB could clear most anything.  

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Two fools in this world. A millionaire who thinks that by hoarding money he can accumulate real power, the other the reformer who thinks he can take money from one class it will solve everything


Posted By: Mactractor
Date Posted: 23 Aug 2011 at 3:58pm
You guys are right, a 7G size loader is probably not needed there, but an Allis engined machine sure does sound a hell of a lot sweeter than any Fiat engined one. Its not always about economics.


Posted By: Daehler
Date Posted: 23 Aug 2011 at 4:57pm
Im gonna be pushing over trees thats bigger than 14 inches. Are 7G's and 7G B series hard to find?

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8070FWA,7080 BlackBelly, 7045,2 200s,D19,D17,G, WD,45,UC,7 AC mowers and lots more!
"IT TAKES 3 JD's TO OUT DO AN ALLIS, 2 TO MATCH IT IN THE FIELD AND 1 FOR PARTS!"


Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 23 Aug 2011 at 7:40pm
I have been on here and in conversations with guys here as to PMs' as to machines I have found or looked at, listen well to them they will not steer you wrong.

I backed off owning my own for now, too many needed more work $ to get useable than to just have a contractor come out and push the stuff I needed down so I opted for the latter until I can get a shop and some cash ahead to start a project machine.

Rails(track chains) are high dollar as are rollers or getting them re-manufactured, then you have the downtime and the work on time plus tooling to get it where you need it to what you need it to do.  If you buy one ready to work with all the parts in decent order you will pay a sharp price for it, beware the 'bargains' as they tend to not be in the long run.


Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 23 Aug 2011 at 9:07pm
to take out a large tree , you dig on 3 sides of it and then push it over , this can be done with dozer, loader or a backhoe. Brute force works but knowhow wins out .
 On some silo footings at a job site, a guy i was working for had a CAT 977 and was trying to remove them with no luck , said i would remove them with HD5G, he laughed and said could not be done with the 5 , hour later they were in a pile.
 Same on the footing for house on same site he tried digging them and I finished up with 5 in digging into table slabs of lime-rock. Its knowing how to move material and not tax machine but let it do the work.


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Two fools in this world. A millionaire who thinks that by hoarding money he can accumulate real power, the other the reformer who thinks he can take money from one class it will solve everything


Posted By: Mactractor
Date Posted: 23 Aug 2011 at 10:16pm
Very good point Coke. An HD6 Dozer with a straight blade on it would make short work of those trees if ya knew what you were doin on it.


Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 23 Aug 2011 at 10:32pm
MY FD5 cost close to $18,000 in 1988 and I have seen them for same price yet. FD7 or FL7  I think would be in same range not to less.
 To clarify on the silo of why I could take it out with HD5 , he was trying to push it in from outside , I just broke off sections until I could push from inside. Anyone should know you cant collapse a circle foundation by pushing inward , thats where it's strength is.


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Two fools in this world. A millionaire who thinks that by hoarding money he can accumulate real power, the other the reformer who thinks he can take money from one class it will solve everything


Posted By: TREVMAN
Date Posted: 26 Aug 2011 at 10:52am
An hd11 loader cat would be all you would need, much larger than the hd 5 my dad had that we used for EVERYTHING on the farm. Think about weight if you want to move the machine from place to place. You need a pretty good trailer for an 11 to be legal. I dont know a thing about 977 cat, but an hd11 is  a fairly large unit for tree lines and feedlots. They can be bought fairly cheaply and are very sturdy machines, Just my 2 cents, Trev.


Posted By: Daehler
Date Posted: 26 Aug 2011 at 12:47pm
Ive never seen any hd11 loaders, i would say that would be a good machine. Ive got a hd11 dozer and i like it alot, would like it more if it was running

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8070FWA,7080 BlackBelly, 7045,2 200s,D19,D17,G, WD,45,UC,7 AC mowers and lots more!
"IT TAKES 3 JD's TO OUT DO AN ALLIS, 2 TO MATCH IT IN THE FIELD AND 1 FOR PARTS!"


Posted By: gemdozer
Date Posted: 26 Aug 2011 at 3:43pm
I dismantled 2 hd11 loaders for parts these was HD11G with 8 rollers long track and dismantled 5 HD11 dozers


Posted By: chevytaHOE5674
Date Posted: 26 Aug 2011 at 4:00pm
You don't need a huge machine to push trees over.... I have pushed a few 12-14" plus hardwoods over with my little H3. You just dig on three sides as much as you can and then push up as high as possible towards the 4th side. Sure a bigger machine would make it a little easier but mine gets it done.

Moral of the story is you don't have to have a massive machine that takes a semi tractor and a low boy trailer to move from place to place.


Posted By: michale34
Date Posted: 26 Aug 2011 at 4:15pm
i have been looking for a long time for a hd7g and have found one yet. dad had one of each  a standard and a b and he liked his 6g better than either 7g .


Posted By: Mactractor
Date Posted: 26 Aug 2011 at 5:00pm
HD6G is a very good machine. With enough ballast weight on the back, they will lift a five ton trailer off the back of a logging truck. will lift almost what 7G will. Here in New Zealand you dont need a lowbed to shift them around. just back a 3 axle tip truck up to a bank and drive the loader onto the truck. Keeps shifting costs down


Posted By: Daehler
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2011 at 12:17pm

So i should go with a smaller machine? I know hauling is one thing, but I cant be fooling around having to dig out trees. One push and it should be over and ready to lift out, thats why i was asking about the size of a 7G. The machine I need will have to keep up with a 16B dozer, and I dont really know what model will. 5, 6 or 7G or will I have to go bigger?



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8070FWA,7080 BlackBelly, 7045,2 200s,D19,D17,G, WD,45,UC,7 AC mowers and lots more!
"IT TAKES 3 JD's TO OUT DO AN ALLIS, 2 TO MATCH IT IN THE FIELD AND 1 FOR PARTS!"


Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2011 at 1:01pm
Pushing over a tree still leaves you with cleanup, you still need to fill the hole left by root ball, stack or move the trunk and such . manuvering a machine around and working near things , choosing the biggest machine to do the big jobs and then sacrificing the fact the small jobs end up being hard to do with big machine is false economy.
 Guy i bought a 4WD loader from had 4 piles of topsoil with around 200 yards in each pile and he asked me to spread them for him before i moved the machine. he had worked on one by digging into pile straight on , I just cut edge off and worked trough piles a little at a time and moved them all in a couple hours where he had worked days taking one bucket at a time.
 All in learning how to use a machine , not brute force applied in wrong place.


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Two fools in this world. A millionaire who thinks that by hoarding money he can accumulate real power, the other the reformer who thinks he can take money from one class it will solve everything


Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2011 at 8:08pm
I'm with Coke on this, I have used a 450JD loader to push a 22" across black locust out, took a little digging along the edges of the root mass but the tree went over and with a 13,000# machine.  Took less time than I saw a gent on a D6C Cat trying to push a smaller one straight on.

The loader I have on my 180 is no hilift but can be used to move some serious material if handled correctly.


Posted By: darrel in ND
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2011 at 8:48am
when you guys are talking about digging on 3 sides of a tree, and then pushing it over from the 4th side, how deep do you have to dig down on the 3 sides? Thanks, Darrel


Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2011 at 9:03am
Dig on 3 sides into the majority of the feeding root mass, then push TO the fourth direction.  It is not so much as 4 sides but looking down on a tree trunk to the stump picture a "C", cut around the trunk in that horseshoe and as the tree gets looser then push it to the uncut area like a hinge, pick that spot accordingly for the tree to fall to.  Trackhoes and backhoes do well sometimes even better for this; a tree with a serious taproot will fight back even as this method works well, cottonwood, elm, sycamore and similar set a pretty vicious tap root beyond the feeders.


Posted By: BennyLumpkin
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2011 at 10:19am
We had an HD4 Dozer on our farm and it did everything you want but you may want a loader.....sweet little machine with lots of power and plenty of bang for your buck.

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Central PA Allis Express
1934 WC254
1945 WF
1945 WC135755
1951 WD68085
1953 WD45-150217
1957 WD45D-230744D
B110


Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2011 at 11:11am
A lot of time only a couple feet, the root ball has a lot of roots near the surface to draw water from. With the back-hoe I might dig down 3 ft or so all the way around, then just fill area back in, its just a matter of breaking up the root structure.
 Removed a big cottonwood stump where they cut the tree down first and then had me remove the stump with hoe. Had a root ball about 12' in diameter, and about 8' deep and took all the power I had with the 715B to get it dug out and lifted out of hole. Once out i could not move it with the machine , had to hook a AC 190 to front  and myself pushing to get it out of yard area.


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Two fools in this world. A millionaire who thinks that by hoarding money he can accumulate real power, the other the reformer who thinks he can take money from one class it will solve everything


Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 01 Sep 2011 at 11:25pm
Taking some large trees out with a dozer , then looks like he could have cut deeper with PAT blade using the corner to get a few more roots and did the job easier.
 


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Two fools in this world. A millionaire who thinks that by hoarding money he can accumulate real power, the other the reformer who thinks he can take money from one class it will solve everything


Posted By: edwin
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2013 at 8:08am
selling my hd 7-g with ripper. real good u/c power shift needs a head. or engine will sell with ripper for 3,800 calls only 417-718-0766 missouri


Posted By: Old7g?forSale
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2015 at 7:07pm
I gave an old 7g, or 7gb, I am not sure.   I want to sell it.   It was bought by my father, who died years ago, and I need to remove it.   It needs some work, but I am pricing for a sell now.   If you are terested, please Reply.


Posted By: Mike8cyl
Date Posted: 02 May 2016 at 12:15am
Hey guys new to this deal but grew up on allis chalmers machines and love them my dad bought an hd7g in 66 or so 4 cyl turbo I tracked it down 5 years after he passed and bought it back for 5 grand tons of power pushes over pretty much anything you can through at it very rarely do you have to dig anything he also had an hd4 with a six way blade that was stolen same time :/ never found that one yet... I know who took it and I will get it back but in the mean time bought my own hd4 love it but one steering clutch is slipping I may have to dive in and change them kinda a bummer my 2 cents if you can find an hd7g loader buy it they are a pleasure to run and power for days! One other thing to consider the hd machines were fast compared to modern crap the hd4 has a 3 speed gear box and the 7g in hi gear really moves just guessing but 10-15 mph?? To fast for a lot of things but driving it to where your working is way faster and saves a lot of time 👍😎


Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 02 May 2016 at 7:44am
I currently have two HD7G machines, one is a parts donor as the engine went sour and the previous owner died before repairs could be made to keep it from scrap.  Parts for the AC line are fast depleting as well used getting ever so scarce as many are over 40 years old with much US scrap having gone to China to $200+/ton a short time back.

7G is 105 hp, 955K/L are 98hp by listings so very comparable but hatefully I am about to embark on a newer machine to replace my "FatAlice"(Fiat Allis).


Posted By: Mike8cyl
Date Posted: 02 May 2016 at 8:33am
I won't do it the 7g has a new head new turbo new starter new generator but burns oil pretty good gonna do a in frame on it soon I think I know it's never been touched in its 50 year life lol but I gotta make sure my son grows up on these machines he's 5 now and ready to learn :)



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