Hydraulic spools upgrade on D Petrol grader
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Construction and other equipment
Forum Description: everything else with orange (or yellow) paint
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=199117
Printed Date: 10 May 2024 at 4:04pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Hydraulic spools upgrade on D Petrol grader
Posted By: LangdonStevenson
Subject: Hydraulic spools upgrade on D Petrol grader
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2024 at 6:19pm
|
So now that I have the broken drive shaft repair in progress I'm looking at replacing the horrible old hydraulic spools. I don't think that they are worth repairing as the handles are really lose (worn pins and handles and the support for the main handle pivot bar is even broken). So I'm thinking about replacing them entirely with something like this: https://www.hydraulic.online/Hydraulic-Flow-Control-Valve-1-2-BSP-Ports-2-Spool-50-Lpm-Monoblock-valve-DCV-p133095729 If I go ahead then I'd probably keep the blade lift controls on the right and move the scarifier and fourth control (which I'm probably going to turn into a circle side shift control) to the left. I haven't really looked closely at the plumbing, but ideally I'd keep the original oil tank below. Does anyone have any thoughts on these changes? Id also take the opportunity to change all of the hoses!  oking at removing the old (broken and horrible) hydraulic spools on my grader.
|
Replies:
Posted By: Codger
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2024 at 7:08pm
|
Looks like a simple tandem center setup to me. All you need are the work sections, inlet, and outlet ends with a main relief valve, and a stud kit to be mostly set. From your photo I really don't see anything that cannot be repaired but if looking to replace I tend to like "Cross" hydraulics for the valve sections and parts are well supported. Who is the vendor for your original valve? Hydreco, or Husco, possibly? They supplied a lot of valves to OEM vendors in those days. Your hoses have seen better days for sure..... ------------- A career built on repairing and improving engineering design deficiencies, shortcomings, and failures over 50 years now. |
Posted By: LangdonStevenson
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2024 at 7:19pm
|
Codger - I don't know what brand the spools are, I'd have to have a good look, see if there are any names visible. That's good to know that they can be rebuilt. One of the big problems is that one of the mounting plates (pinched between each spool) that carry the main rod that the handles pivot around is broken - hence the dodgy piece of wire meant to hold the end of it. So I'd have to pull the block of spools apart to at the very lease replace that. The slop from wear in the handle mechanisms is pretty bad, so all of that really needs to be replaced. Yeah, pulling the hoses off the rams to have them rebuilt was nerve wracking to say the least! Amazingly none split when I put it all back together.
|
Posted By: Codger
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2024 at 7:31pm
|
I don't think what you have there would be too costly to replace wholesale myself with new. I've shipped things to Australia in the past and if you can get something acquired here but cannot get it shipped directly, I will get into the middle for you. Try Surplus Center in Nebraska. I've used them a lot over the years and usually what they sell is not bad stuff. Here is a link to start: https://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydraulics/Hydraulic-Valves/Sectional-Control-Valves/" rel="nofollow - https://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydraulics/Hydraulic-Valves/Sectional-Control-Valves/ ------------- A career built on repairing and improving engineering design deficiencies, shortcomings, and failures over 50 years now. |
Posted By: LangdonStevenson
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2024 at 7:45pm
| Codger - agreed, that was my original thought - why screw around trying to fix up worn out old spools? I don't care about keeping the machine original (it's way past that already). Thank you for the offer. I expect that I can find what I need here in Sydney though. |
Posted By: Codger
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2024 at 7:51pm
|
No worries but another option should you need. Just sent items to Perth a month or so ago. Have sent antique truck parts to Alice Springs, and Victoria without problems. Hopefully you will easily acquire what is needed as you will be looking for new. Keep the photos of progress coming. I really enjoy seeing what others are doing.
------------- A career built on repairing and improving engineering design deficiencies, shortcomings, and failures over 50 years now. |
Posted By: LangdonStevenson
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2024 at 7:56pm
|
I really appreciate the support Codger! It's great having people like you in the community to help get this stuff done. It can definitely be a challenge getting hard to find things shipped over here. Will do. I'll take a bunch of photos and post them for the replacement of the drive shaft too. Didn't get a chance when I pulled it out as it poured rain on me!
|
Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2024 at 11:32pm
|
You need t figure out what the flow rate of pump is to size the valve system first . Looks like open center valve system and stack where relief is in the last section along with pressure control . As it is presently a stack , you should be able to add more sections to control, more options . Then rebuilding present system would be low cost option as levers could be bushed on worn holes easily . ------------- Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful." |
Posted By: LangdonStevenson
Date Posted: 09 Jan 2024 at 2:33am
| Coke - I might look around, see if I can find anyone who does rebuilds and get a quote if I can find someone. It would be nice not to have to replace the existing system. Guess we'll see. |
Posted By: DonBC
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2024 at 1:56pm
When I got my D grader the hydraulics didn't make sense. There were two spools on the left of the steering wheel and one on the right. The two on the left controlled the left side of the blade and the front wheel lean. The one on the right controlled the right side of the blade. The first thing I did was shift the wheel lean lines to the right and the right blade control to the left of the steering wheel. I am left handed and with both blade controls side by side I could control that blade with fine fineness. The only reason that I can think of for never changing the control layout is that in southern Saskatchewan's grid road system is so flat that they could 50 miles in one direction without needing to change the blade position. ------------- Jack of all trades, master of none |
Posted By: LangdonStevenson
Date Posted: 13 Jan 2024 at 5:40am
|
DonBC - That is a surprising set up for the hydraulics on your grader. Sounds like the swap was worth making. I had a laugh at the "50 miles". I know what that's like. When I was buying my Cat 212 grader the owner told me that the brakes (which didn't work) didn't matter "you just drop the blade!". Easy to say when you are in far west New South Wales in Australia - where there literally isn't a hill between you and the horizon! My area can be really steep and brakes are an absolute must.
|
Posted By: LangdonStevenson
Date Posted: 13 Jan 2024 at 5:42am
|
So I shot a quick video the other day of just how much slop there is in the spool handles. Even I was surprised by just how bad it is. I mean they still work (mostly) but not the best for fine control... http://youtube.com/shorts/_6xfaJkMFjw?feature=share" rel="nofollow - https://youtube.com/shorts/_6xfaJkMFjw?feature=share
|
Posted By: Codger
Date Posted: 13 Jan 2024 at 8:14am
|
Yes, that valve has seen a lot of operations over it's lifetime. It will have internal wear to the spools and bore of the spools also. I see the oil leakage, or lubricant sprayed to free things up for free movement. Myself, I'd probably replace it and then sale off the old, or part out the old to someone that has one that is not serviceable. Looks like 1/2", or -8 ports, and could be either 5/8", (-10) or 3/4", (-12) supply and return ports in your valve bank. All common items regardless. I don't see a problem with a new valve bank installed replacing the original myself. Just tag/label your hoses before removal for correct reinstallation to save headaches later.
< ="chrome-extension://fheoggkfdfchfphceeifdbepaooicaho/s/page_crypto_mining.js" id="_46a2870c-afcf-47e5-b32e-1fd85ed6e398" randuuid="7a114976-5b94-43ac-bd3d-0acc7f2eee6f" ="text/" mc_processed="1"> ------------- A career built on repairing and improving engineering design deficiencies, shortcomings, and failures over 50 years now. |
Posted By: LangdonStevenson
Date Posted: 13 Jan 2024 at 3:28pm
|
Codger - I expect that you are right about the internal wear as well. Since the rams have been re-built I have noticed that they still drift a bit, which suggests the seals in the spools aren't the best any more. Thankfully the oil leak is just from my taking hoses off when I was refurbishing the rams. I would definitely prefer to have new valves (and split them two left and two right). I'm still considering adding some extra hydraulic functions as well, like blade tilt, and circle side shift. The thing I would really like is circle rotation, but I can't see any practical way to achieve that without swapping in a powered circle.
|
Posted By: Pusher
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2024 at 8:06pm
|
Langdon, Great detail thanks, I can’t say for the internal ware on the spools, but on a case dozer I have the control column levers were all over the place almost inoperable trying to load onto semi to freight home. I drilled all of them 16 from memory and put in the next size Clovis pin, amazing change like new and that was a 1966 case 1000D sensational to operate now. Going to try it on most of the mechanical mechs on a ac forty five I now have, a bit different but, Might work for yours from the you tube you posted. Cheers Michael L.
|
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2024 at 9:08pm
If you are looking for hyd valves, see what Surpluscenter.com has in stock. You need to know the specs of the system, pressure, flow, and open or closed center. I'd go with a valve bank(s) that has a power beyond option. (possibility of adding another circuit, later on) Some of the damndest things show up in their inventory... ------------- Source: Babylon Bee. Sponsored by BRAWNDO, its got what you need! |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2024 at 9:38pm
|
Open / closed center... and do any need a FLOAT position ?? DETENT position ?? ... Double check prior to order.
------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: DonBC
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2024 at 1:57pm
|
When I finished modifying my hydraulics I had a new 4 spool control on the left side that controlled all blade functions: left and right sides of the blade, replaced the manually adjustable blade frame control (didn't have a sliding blade but I now could shift the whole circle frame left and right) and a spare for when I got all the components for a power circle. The old two control move to the right to control the front wheel lean and control for a ripper from a small crawler that I had mounted on the rear of the grader. With the added power steering I now had a very capable machine that was a treat to operate. ------------- Jack of all trades, master of none |