7060 questions
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=198756
Printed Date: 08 May 2024 at 10:12pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: 7060 questions
Posted By: plummerscarin
Subject: 7060 questions
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2023 at 8:35pm
| My early maroon 7060 looks like is needing special attention. Beginning with what appears to be some serious blow by. If that isn't concerning enough recently the oil pressure light was taking much longer to go out than usual to a point it wouldn't go out at all today. I have another 7060 just sitting for now so I swapped oil sending units and that worked as normal so suspecting a defective sending unit. Which brings a question. I want to install a pressure gauge to check actual pressure. What PSI should expect to see? Hour meter shows over 11000 hrs. Accurate? I don't know. What was done to it by PO? I don't know. I have plans to drop oil pan and check rod bearing clearance. Another thing I checked, loosened the oil drain plug and got about a pint of antifreeze out of it. Didn't want to see that. Will find more information after pan drop. Coolant system doesn't seem to be pressurized with engine running but will do further testing. Injector pump leaks around throttle shaft. |
Replies:
Posted By: Lynn Marshall
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2023 at 9:35pm
55 PSI , hot oil pressure. I wouldn't worry about that right now. You have water in the oil. That is causing a steam to come out of the breather tuber. Take the pan off and pressurize the cooling system to determine how the coolant is getting in the oil. Probably a sleeve seal and maybe caused by a scored piston. Correct the leak and replace all the bearings while there. The injection pump leak is fairly easily fixed as long as you don't twist off any of the top cover screws and don't drop any of the parts into the pump.
|
Posted By: plummerscarin
Date Posted: 04 Feb 2024 at 10:47pm
| Finally got it in the shop and dropped the pan. Coolant is dripping off the #4 cylinder over the main bearing. |
Posted By: plummerscarin
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2024 at 11:56pm
Very early in the tear down. Pulled #4 rod cap off  Anyone know what the numbers mean? .010 under? The rod bolts are 12 point heads. Is this original? I think ARP bolts are like that. |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 09 Feb 2024 at 5:05am
| October 1975...std size |
Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 09 Feb 2024 at 7:49am
| There were 12 point bolts before ARP showed up. ARP is stamped in the head. |
Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 09 Feb 2024 at 7:52am
| That brg appears to have no tin coating. Have seen car engines that way in 70's and 80's |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 09 Feb 2024 at 8:27am
| That's the way Federal Mogul bearings were. The Clevite brand bearings were 3-layer (tin-aluminum-brass). The 7080's were the first to get the Clevite bearings in the very late Fall of 1974. Kind of surpised this engine didn't have them instead of FM bearings. |
Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 09 Feb 2024 at 11:44am
| Who knows...my 83 8070 still had an original front upper main shell which was FM and it was tin coated but the rods and other mains had been replaced with Clevite 112's |
Posted By: plummerscarin
Date Posted: 10 Feb 2024 at 9:13pm
A solid 10 hrs today and am down to ready to pull sleeves   Pistons are scored on some, more than a half dozen broken rings These are the top half of rod bearings 
|
Posted By: Lynn Marshall
Date Posted: 10 Feb 2024 at 9:56pm
| Couple of things. I use a hydraulic jack and a fairly big rod to push the sleeves out from below. It might be a good time to get the radiator checked out. Scored cylinders can certainly come from overheating. It looks like the tractor is still using the luber finer filter setup. Those things can leak when you least expect it and cause even more headaches. I would be looking for an 8000 series bypass filter or depending on the work load, just eliminate it. |
Posted By: plummerscarin
Date Posted: 10 Feb 2024 at 10:55pm
|
I got this tractor at auction in 2019 and shortly after getting it home found the rad to be leaking so it was recored then. I admit it overheated a couple times. Once when the upper hose blew off. Other times at first start up it would climb to 220 per the temp gauge then after a few minutes drop to around 180 and remain the rest of the day. The luber finer is still there. What type of leak would I expect. External? This is a small time operation and puts in 30 hours heavy tillage and roading wagons to town per year. Thanks for the tip on the jack |
Posted By: Lynn Marshall
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2024 at 7:57am
| Might be a good time to change thermostats. I have put on a fair share of mechanical heat gauges on those tractors because of the inaccuracies of the electric gauge. The luber finers usually leak externally from the top cover gasket. If you don't notice it right away, especially at night, you will notice the red, oil pressure light, shining in your face. By then, it's usually to late. |
Posted By: plummerscarin
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2024 at 9:13am
| I've replaced the thermostats twice and have not solved the issue. I think I'll invest in an infrared thermometer to compare with. I have a 7040 the PO installed a temp gauge as you suggested. The two gauges do read differently |
Posted By: ryan(IN)
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2024 at 9:33am
------------- ryan 1984 8070 FWA,1979 7060,1975 7040,1971 190,1960 D-17D,1957 D-14, 196? D-19G, 1975 5040,1971? 160,1994 R62 |
plummerscarin wrote:Posted By: plummerscarin
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2024 at 12:13pm
| Local Agco dealer |
Posted By: ryan(IN)
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2024 at 12:48pm
|
A few years ago the thermostats agco were selling were like what you could get from A&i or other aftermarket’s and they did not let enough coolant flow. The thermostats they sell now are correct. Our 8070 and 7060 were both running warmer that they should with re cored and an extra row of tubes in the radiator. Took out those junk thermostat and replaced with the good agco ones and temps came down. Gotta really work the 8070 to get it go anywhere near 200-210. ------------- ryan 1984 8070 FWA,1979 7060,1975 7040,1971 190,1960 D-17D,1957 D-14, 196? D-19G, 1975 5040,1971? 160,1994 R62 |
Posted By: Ron(AB)
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2024 at 2:03pm
|
The luber finers usually leak because the orifice gets plugged in the bottom of the canister. Then they pressure up and leak around the top seal ring. Only had it happen a couple of times on my 7050, but it could of been a bad filter with a lot of loose particles. ------------- 405, 7000, 7050, 8050, 8070, L3, 2300 & 2600 disk |
Posted By: plummerscarin
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2024 at 3:26pm
|
I understand what you're all saying about the luber finer. When I initially drained all the oil there was big spurt of air come out the drain tube. This was after it had sat a couple days. It will be going away. I was granted the use of a sleeve driver and they have all been removed.  It actually lifted one tire off the floor before popping loose. I reckon some of you may get a chuckle out this but I was not aware how much coolant would come out of there after the first sleeve came out. Where does one drain the block after the radiator stops dripping? Thanks for all the help from everyone so far |
Posted By: AllisFreak MN
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2024 at 3:57pm
|
I'm curious what this "luber finer" is and where? ------------- '49 A-C WD, '51 A-C WD, '63 A-C D17 Series III, 1968 A-C One-Seventy, '82 A-C 6060, '75 A-C 7040, A-C #3 sickle mower, 2 A-C 701 wagons, '78 Gleaner M2 |
Posted By: 8070nc
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2024 at 5:01pm
|
Ive never owned a tractor with one. Its my understanding that on tne intercooled tractors its a bypass oil filter. Ive seen pictures. It appears to be a housing with a oil bath filter between the engine and cab. On the 8000 series they changed to a spin on ------------- 1984 80780 1957 D14 DES 300 with 25000 engine 616 tractor |
Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2024 at 11:36pm
| There is a water drain in the very back corner of water jacket on left side. You about need to remove the starter to get to it. Also hiding behind heater and hyd hoses. You can rinse block a little with water and blow down inside to try to push it to the back drain to keep from having antifreeze running into main brgs. Jacking front end off ground helps. |
Posted By: plummerscarin
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2024 at 8:43am
| Yeah, a little late for that now. Good to know for future projects but really hope not to go through it again. All the bearings will be replaced as that was the original plan before the leak started. |
Posted By: JPG AUSTRALIA
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2024 at 5:41pm
| So was it a o ring failure or pinhole in sleeve? |
Posted By: plummerscarin
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2024 at 11:59am
| I’m still in cleaning phase and my accountant was helping remove the sleeves and set them out order. I’m leaning towards O ring failure as nothing else stands out yet |
Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2024 at 6:38pm
| My experience pulling sleeves out of a 426 is there is no way to tell condition of oring because they are a t**d to get out through the top bore. Damage done. |
Posted By: plummerscarin
Date Posted: 15 Feb 2024 at 5:41pm
Steve is correct. As the sleeves came out the O rings were stretched and ultimately damaged pulling through the upper deck bore. This particular one may have failed before tear down.  I'm no forensics expert but I think O ring failure. I backlit the sleeves and found no pinholes . I'm thinking the sleeves actually look pretty good. |
Posted By: plummerscarin
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2024 at 7:57am
| Dug out a service manual I have for 7010,20,and 45 as well as an I&T for that series. Goal at this point is to verify rod and main bearing specs. I measured the rods so far and get a reading of 2.752" with micrometers. This is larger than what the books say. 7045 calls for 2.747". For a double check, I measured the mic with a dial caliper and got 2.747. I'm going with the notion the mics need calibrating and I have a good standard size journal. Next, check main size and cam lift specs. I'm good idea to get 7060 service manual. |
Posted By: Lynn Marshall
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2024 at 9:07am
| There won't be much more information on the engine in a 7060 manual that a 7045 doesn't have. Fuel injection pump setting, luber finer, and intercooler information is about it. |
Posted By: MrSnerdly
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2024 at 9:22am
| Off topic, but have you considered a new vibration damper? John Deere recommends replacement at 4500 hours. I used to think this was unnecessary but the boys that farm most of my ground bought the majority of my equipment, one being a 4640, and it ran fine for several years but they broke the crank on it last year. I am sure they are not cheap but a lot less than a broken crank. |
Posted By: plummerscarin
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2024 at 5:59pm
There actually is a section covering the luber finer. Would the the cam lift specs be the same for a 7060 and 7045? |
Posted By: Lynn Marshall
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2024 at 7:01pm
| To my knowledge, the cams were all the same from the 7030 to 7080. Dr.Allis might have more information about that. |
Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2024 at 9:59am
| Would have to look in books again but I think the lift and timing specs are the same on 220 VS 8070. Bolt added in nose at some point between the 2 so not the "same" cam. |
Posted By: plummerscarin
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2024 at 9:55pm
Since MrSnerdly asked, here's a shot of the dampener That's probably not a good thing |
Posted By: MrSnerdly
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2024 at 10:22pm
| I would definitely replace it it it were mine. I used to think that it was foolish but after selling the 4640 to the guys that rent most of my ground had the crank break, I think it is a wise investment. |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2024 at 7:13am
| I would bet the Deere had a "fluid/viscous" damper and that is what they are known for. It is recommended to replace them at a certain hour interval to prevent crankshaft breakage. That 7060 damper is OK fine because it hasn't slipped/moved and is of the rubber type design, not the silicone fluid, which hardens or leaks out of the damper shell, making the damper useless and breaking crankshafts. |
Posted By: Acguywill
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2024 at 9:26am
| So are there any symptoms of a bad dampner other than an eventual broken crank? Our 8010 is closing in on 18k hours and still has the original one. Should I change it just because? It looks fine. |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2024 at 10:08am
| When rubber dampers fail, they generally shift position and the fan belts get out of alignment. Actual "service life" is related to how many hrs and at what percentage of rated load the engine produces. An engine used all the time at full throttle/100% work load would have less hours of service life on the damper. An engine used for lighter/slower speed work would have a damper that lasts longer. It's up to you. Belts that are still in alignment means the rubber hasn't allowed things to shift just yet. |
Posted By: tbran
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2024 at 2:10pm
|
Unfortunately the camshaft from the first NA D21 to the Last R6 Gleaner and 4W220 were the same part #74029000 - NOW the first 3500's had a gear to drive the oil pump - that part is NLA - AC engines guys never changed the cams from non- turbo to turbo engines. Only one time in the D262 D19s - they changed the lobe to hold the intake open longer - then they would not start (even worse than normal) and they changed the cams on the first ones back to std. Every engine designer knows the cam is the heart of the engine. We and many others found this out in pulling as well. One thing I mispoke about - there was a change in cam profile many decads ago to incorporate a 'quieting ramp' for some reason - valve seating speed was what I was told - it did not affect cam lift duration overlap or timing. Many have used offset keys to adjust timing. We know that cam timing affects starting ability as well. Random thoughts in answer to a question above. ------------- When told "it's not the money,it's the principle", remember, it's always the money.. |
Posted By: Lynn Marshall
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2024 at 10:22am
| There's nothing wrong with the pulley in the picture, as far as I'm concerned. The inner part of the pulley is secured with a key on a tapered shaft with a large bolt and washer. Really not much to go wrong there. The outer part can slide in or out,off of the rubber ring. Moving out can cause belts to come off. Moving in is more common and it can eventually start rubbing on the aluminum timing gear cover, creating a leak. All of pulleys,if original, are bound to have that weather cracking look in the rubber ring. |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2024 at 10:56am
| As with anything 40+ years old and 10K+ hrs on it, I would always keep a watchful eye on the damper and belt alignment. At least every oil change take a look, or daily if you're more inclined. I've seen them fail with half those hrs of service life, so you never know. But to just replace it because it's old ain't a good reason in my pocketbook. |
Posted By: plummerscarin
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2024 at 12:46pm
| Understood, thanks for the replies |
Posted By: 8070nc
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2024 at 2:23pm
|
I had a viscous damper on a 8070 go bad. Made it sound like it had a rod knock. Checked the bearings and they were fine. After much investigation figured out it was the damper. Where im going with this is if viscous fluid in a sealed case can go bad why wont 40 year rubber get hard and cause that style damper to not work right ------------- 1984 80780 1957 D14 DES 300 with 25000 engine 616 tractor |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2024 at 4:43pm
| I like to diagnose as accurately as possible. I don't throw parts at a problem unless there is no other choice and even then, past experience plays a role. If I have a 426 with a viscous damper throwing belts (A/C or fan belts) OR breaking A/C compressor or alternator brackets/mounts OR making a serious timing gear train rattle at approx 2500 RPM's, I KNOW there is a defective viscous damper!!! Replacement MAY prevent the breaking a crankshaft, if it hasn't been bad for too long. Until I have a rubber type damper shift position OR hear timing gear train noise or throwing belts and breaking brackets, I have no reason to replace one, from past experience. In fact, I can't ever remember (45 years) of having broken brackets, thrown belts or timing gear noise on ANY rubber damper to date that had not shifted position. You are certainly free to do whatever you think is right. |
Posted By: MrSnerdly
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2024 at 6:42pm
| Maybe they don't need to be replaced but they aren't terribly expensive. I think a 4640 is less than $200. It would be worth it to me for piece of mind. |
Posted By: bigal121892
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2024 at 7:43pm
|
Had a 7040 where the damper pulley moved in towards the engine on the rubber, the pulley rubbed a hole in the timing cover. |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2024 at 8:03pm
| Approx $600 - $650 bucks for rubber. Fluid is more. |
Posted By: MrSnerdly
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2024 at 8:38pm
| That's way more than a JD. $157 from TractorpartsASAP, $269 from Deere. I bet the cheap one is as good as the JD. JD always screws you on parts. I hate their dealers. |
Posted By: Lynn Marshall
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2024 at 10:16pm
| Is anyone currently rebuilding those pulleys? Didn't the guy in Oregon retire?? |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2024 at 10:51pm
| He did. A & I is where I got one last for that $650 number about 2 yrs ago. |
Posted By: IBWD MIke
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2024 at 7:37am
|
Had to put one on a 436 IH in a 1460 combine three or four years ago. Want to say it was around $450 at that time. Case IH part from the local dealer. |
Posted By: Ray54
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2024 at 11:32am
Something one needs to keep an eye on. Saw that happen to 75 MH combine in the summer of 79.
|
Posted By: Acguywill
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2024 at 8:28pm
| Well this has me thinking that maybe the dampner on the 8010 is bad. It has always been a rattling terrible sounding engine from new so I never considered that the dampner could be the cause. New ones are available from agco for $1600 but only three and when they are gone they will no longer be available. I would think if it was bad from the start the crank would have been toast long ago. |
Posted By: MrSnerdly
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2024 at 9:05pm
| $1600 seems outrageous. From TractorpartsASAP they are $170 or so for a 4640. Same damper fits a multitude of JD models. Have you checked with ASAP? |
Posted By: ryan(IN)
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2024 at 9:11pm
Agco parts at its finest. Increase the price to artificially destroy demand and then discontinue because there was no demand for the part. ------------- ryan 1984 8070 FWA,1979 7060,1975 7040,1971 190,1960 D-17D,1957 D-14, 196? D-19G, 1975 5040,1971? 160,1994 R62 |
Posted By: SLee(IA)
Date Posted: 29 Feb 2024 at 12:17pm
|
ASAP website shows a new 8010 dampner for $598. Steve |
Posted By: plummerscarin
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2024 at 10:57pm
|
I set up the dial indicator with a push rod over each cam lobe. In the I&T manual intake lift is .318" and exhaust is .285". As measured, the best intake is .298 and worst at .289. Exhaust comes in at .279 and lowest at .218. Rather disappointed to see these numbers I have the sleeve bores cleaned and have the new ones in for dry fit checking stand out. Looks good in area |
Posted By: Lynn Marshall
Date Posted: 07 Mar 2024 at 7:49am
| I can't recall ever changing a cam in an Allis engine of any size except for the rare instance of the nose breaking off on a couple of 190s. They have such a good success rate,that I never even bothered to check them. I do have a couple of used take outs from bad engines if interested. Central Iowa location. I don't know their condition. Obviously, it's a fair bit more work to change one,especially in frame. |
Posted By: AC7060IL
Date Posted: 07 Mar 2024 at 8:16am
Wondering, do any of the worn cam lobes coincide with problem cylinders #4 sleeve? Broken rings? Scored piston? etc..? |
Posted By: plummerscarin
Date Posted: 07 Mar 2024 at 6:33pm
| Not sure of a rhyme or reason. #2 compression ring broken on every cylinder plus some others. Lowest exhaust lift is cylinder 6 then 5 while lowest intake is cylinder 5 while all the rest are mid to high 290s. I've received a few comments saying if it ran good before I tore it down, it should run fine after the OH is complete. Provided I do my job right. Sometimes not knowing is a good thing. |
Posted By: plummerscarin
Date Posted: 18 Mar 2024 at 7:53pm
| Does Agco sell replacement rod bolts or are sourced from other vendors? I see ASAP & YT sell them. Virtually same price |
Posted By: ryan(IN)
Date Posted: 19 Mar 2024 at 5:47am
Get the agco bolts. They are from arp. ------------- ryan 1984 8070 FWA,1979 7060,1975 7040,1971 190,1960 D-17D,1957 D-14, 196? D-19G, 1975 5040,1971? 160,1994 R62 |
Posted By: plummerscarin
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2024 at 9:39pm
Rod bolts ordered from Agco. Not enough on hand so waiting for a stock order to cut shipping costs. Will likely arrive before the rods with new bushings get back from machine shop. Here's a shot of the sleeve bores after cleaning. This is the #4 bore where the leak was noted  The rough part measures out above the top O ring. All cylinders are similar though there does seem to be some staining I can't remove using a green scotch ball and drill |