24 volt ammeter
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Category: Allis Chalmers
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URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=147696
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Topic: 24 volt ammeter
Posted By: walnut1
Subject: 24 volt ammeter
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2018 at 11:30am
| Anyone know of a source for a 24 volt ammeter for an HD11? All I can find are one wire digital ones or $150 aircraft gauges. |
Replies:
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2018 at 11:57am
|
amp meter measures current.. VOLT meter measures voltage. If you want an amp meter, it would be the same as the small tractors. If you want a VOLT meter, I would think they are available for many older dozers / loaders / 24v trucks. ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2018 at 12:00pm
https://www.grainger.com" rel="nofollow - https://www.grainger.com
2" Stainless Steel Engine Voltmeter Gauge with 2-1/16" (53mm) Mounting Hole
 $42.80 / each ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2018 at 12:18pm
or a BLACK ring for $32. at Graingers2" Black Aluminum Engine Voltmeter Gauge with 2-1/16" (53mm) Mounting Hole
------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: Garlic Pete
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2018 at 12:33pm
|
I think, but am not sure if this is correct, that the ammeter doesn't care what voltage is applied to it. It just measures the electrons that pass by. As long as the voltage doesn't get so high that the insulation is breached or internal parts are too close to each other (like hooking up a automotive type ammeter to, say, 480 volts) you can use any ammeter in a system with any nominal voltage. If you really want a volt meter, steve(ill) has given you some good choices. Pete.
|
Posted By: JC-WI
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2018 at 2:06pm
  this one is 42.64 w/shipping... http://www.ebay.com/itm/Faria-13760-Chesapeake-Black-Stainless-Steel-2-Volt-Gauge-for-24-Volt-System-/272221641766" rel="nofollow - http://www.ebay.com/itm/Faria-13760-Chesapeake-Black-Stainless-Steel-2-Volt-Gauge-for-24-Volt-System-/272221641766 and a 26 buck gauge...  http://www.ebay.com/itm/NIB-24v-Volt-meter-Gauge-DATCON-101911-Heavy-Duty-Series-831-2-1-16-52mm/172833938493?hash=item283db49c3d:g:tPYAAOSwAYtWHSi-&vxp=mtr" rel="nofollow - http://www.ebay.com/itm/NIB-24v-Volt-meter-Gauge-DATCON-101911-Heavy-Duty-Series-831-2-1-16-52mm/172833938493?hash=item283db49c3d:g:tPYAAOSwAYtWHSi-&vxp=mtr heres a 30 amp buy it now 25 bucks new and free shipping. http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-2-1-8-STEWART-WARNER-30-AMP-AMPERES-GAUGE-HOT-STREET-RAT-ROD-SCTA/222821785125?hash=item33e1369e25:g:CMoAAOSwNt1adOI-&vxp=mtr" rel="nofollow - http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-2-1-8-STEWART-WARNER-30-AMP-AMPERES-GAUGE-HOT-STREET-RAT-ROD-SCTA/222821785125?hash=item33e1369e25:g:CMoAAOSwNt1adOI-&vxp=mtr Here is a 60 amp for 30 bucks and can shove a light inside it for back lit gauge... http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-1-8-STEWART-WARNER-60-AMP-AMPERES-GAUGE-HOT-STREET-RAT-ROD-SCTA/222821791695?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D50073%26meid%3D40e95c1af134428c893c49926e6735c0%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D222821777411%26itm%3D222821791695&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851" rel="nofollow - http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-1-8-STEWART-WARNER-60-AMP-AMPERES-GAUGE-HOT-STREET-RAT-ROD-SCTA/222821791695?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D50073%26meid%3D40e95c1af134428c893c49926e6735c0%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D222821777411%26itm%3D222821791695&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851 Here is another 60 amp at 40 bucks, and this too can be lit.. from a light source on the outside of the gauge. http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-2-1-8-STEWART-WARNER-60-AMP-AMPERES-GAUGE-HOT-STREET-RAT-ROD-SCTA/323049230492?hash=item4b373c109c:g:VNgAAOSwajVadN9X&vxp=mtr" rel="nofollow - http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-2-1-8-STEWART-WARNER-60-AMP-AMPERES-GAUGE-HOT-STREET-RAT-ROD-SCTA/323049230492?hash=item4b373c109c:g:VNgAAOSwajVadN9X&vxp=mtr  ------------- He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that." |
Posted By: walnut1
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2018 at 2:08pm
| Garlic Pete, thanks for the info. I was curious if that is the case. I can find many that say 12 volts, I’ll try one and let you know. My multimeter is showing around 27+ volts when charging. Both my HD11s have ammeters, not voltage meters. I believe they came that way because my dad bought the tractors new and he said he never replaced them. |
Posted By: walnut1
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2018 at 2:13pm
| JC, thanks for the links, I just sent the seller a question whether they’ll work with a 24 volt system. I’ll post the reply. |
Posted By: walnut1
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2018 at 2:49pm
| The seller, hwaccumulator, said they only work with 12 volt. I put a 35 amp one wire alternator on it, I think it should work. |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2018 at 4:16pm
|
an amp meter measures AMPS.. has nothing to do with VOLTS unless it is electronic controlled... an old Mechanical AMP gauge will work on 12 or 24 volts. ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: Jim.ME
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2018 at 4:33pm
| I agree with Steve. An old mechanical ammeter should work on 6, 12, or 24 volts as long as it's range can cover the charge rate. How many 6 volt tractors and other vehicles have been converted to 12 volts and the same ammeter used by just reversing the leads? They work until the current over loads them, which might be a long time. The likely reason a manufacturer will say an ammeter is for a certain voltage is the lighting kit/bulb they supply with it, as lighting is more commonly supplied in the gauges than it used to be. Stewart Warner gave an option of 12 or 24 volt lighting kits for their ammeters. |
Posted By: jerbob
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2018 at 5:05pm
|
I am replacing all my gauges with Stewart Warner analog mechanical gauges. Jegs carries them all. $36.00 to $45.00 each. They all come with light kits but if your dash light is functional you don't have to hook em up. Regarding lights, could you use s lead from one 12 volt battery to run all the lights? If so, as my HD16 is s 24volt system and a positive ground do I have to reverse the gauge wires to get 12 volt? |
Posted By: Jim.ME
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2018 at 5:56pm
| jerbob, I may not be following what you are asking but, reversing the wires won't reduce 24 volts to 12. On a 24 volt positive ground system, with two batteries in series, you should have 12 volts at the negative terminal of the battery that has the positive post connected to ground. You can check that with a voltmeter. You would have to run a separate wire from there to supply your light switch with 12 volts. You could put a resistor in the 24 volt supply to the lights and reduce it to 12 volts. It would seem it would be easier to get and install the right 24 volt bulbs and reduce the chances shorting something out. Years ago I remember seeing screws driven into the lead connections between cells on the old 12 volt tar topped batteries so people could run 6 volt accessories from them or resistors installed for the same purpose. I also remember seeing somethings go up in smoke from these taps as well. If you decide to do something like this please put a fuse in your wire near the battery. |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2018 at 6:18pm
| Hook up a meter to the batteries and check the amperage, when starting, and when the batteries are charging. IIRR, amp meters can be bought in several sweeps, from -30- +30, is a 60 amp amp meter. I doubt yours is putting out much more, but if it is, a truck amp meter should be available in the range you find... |
Posted By: Jim.ME
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2018 at 6:54pm
| Just to clarify. A voltmeter can be hooked across the battery terminals to check draw down when starting. An ammeter should never be connected across the battery terminals, that can get someone hurt. A regular ammeter might be used to check for parasitic draw, in series, between one battery terminal and its cable, but often that needs a meter that reads milliamps. One would need a big ammeter,(400 + amp range), if it is to be hooked in series between the battery terminal and battery cable to check stating draw. A -30 -0- +30 ammeter would be a 30 amp meter, it is for designed for 30 amps either way from zero. |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2018 at 7:34pm
|
we use to put CBs and Radios in crawler tractors that were 24 volts.... you just run a separate wire to ONE battery ( that has the other side grounded to frame) to get 12 volts... Done all the time. ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: Jim.ME
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2018 at 7:59pm
| I agree with you and have done the same for radios. It is often done and does work if done correctly. |
Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2018 at 8:32pm
|
A AMP meter uses a SHUNT to measure resistance or flow of electricity across a given conductor = the measurement is in AMPS / the force of the current . ------------- Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful." |
Posted By: truckerfarmer
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2018 at 9:36pm
The old ACs running 6 volt positive ground. When switching to 12 volt it's negative ground. That's why you reverse polarity on the ammeter. ------------- Looking at the past to see the future. '53 WD, '53 WD45, WD snap coupler field cultivator, #53 plow,'53 HD5B dozer Duct tape.... Can't fix stupidity. But will muffle the sound of it! |
Jim.ME wrote:Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2018 at 5:51am
| Ammeter should be connected inline with cable, that is why they work any voltage, the reason they note 12V is due to the lamp socket and bulb is rated 12v. |
Posted By: jerbob
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2018 at 8:49am
|
Thank you for responding Jim.ME I misspoke and didn't mean to say crossing the wires to go from 24 volt to 12 volt. I was trying to say that if I wanted to cut in a couple of 12 volt lights to the rear of the tractor, do I hook up the wire to the negative post which on my hd16 is the positive. Or the positive post which is going to ground. I have 2 12 volt batteries connected per manual and the positive post goes to ground. In this case, the negative is acting as the positive and my wire and switch goes to that post correct? I believe several have commented on that later in my post. I thought about it and as I have put in 2 new 24 volt headlights, I can do same for the rear and not fools with using one battery or the other. I can just tie into the line going to the front lights I believe. Obviously I am not experienced in the wiring on this tractor but learning. Thank you and everyone for responding. |
Posted By: jerbob
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2018 at 8:51am
| Thanks Coke. |
Posted By: jerbob
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2018 at 8:52am
This one line,,, would go to the negative post on a Positive ground system correct? |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2018 at 7:22pm
|
YES........ this assumes your 12 volt load does not care about positive ground... may not work on a radio, works OK on light, etc. ----- if your connecting a radio or CB... it would be best to not GROUND the radio case to the tractor steel cab... then just connect the radio as normal with the one battery.  ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: jerbob
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2018 at 8:19pm
| Perfect Steve. Thank you |
Posted By: walnut1
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2018 at 8:09pm
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EBay 12 volt ammeter came today, works well so far. Thanks for the advice all! |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2018 at 6:25am
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um, Steve , you're diagram will blow up the radio PDQ !!! You've shown the dozer to be +ve ground, so feeding MINUS 12 V to the radio...poof !! I haven't seen a +v gnd radio in 4 decades..but if the radio is original to the dozer, and the dozer IS +ve gnd, then it'll work fine but NOT a new,off the shelf radio. just food for thought. Jay ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2018 at 8:15am
|
no, he wanted 12 volts for LIGHTS. .......... as I mentioned in the post, you can not connect the negative battery post to the positive radio post.. You would ALWAYS connect the negative to the radio frame and the positive to the radio hot wire... and then NOT ground the radio case...... It could be done, but a little complicated...If the system was 24 volts and NEGATIVE GROUND as most would be these days, then your good to go with 12 volt tap. ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: TramwayGuy
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2018 at 5:53am
|
The problem with drawing 12 volts off the center like that is that it makes the batteries ‘unbalanced’, and one battery will go dead or you will overcharge one because of it. Much better to convert the lights to 24 volt. For a radio, one could use a resistor to drop voltage to the correct level. |
Posted By: jerbob
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2018 at 6:08am
|
I'm not apologizing for asking about the using 12 volt lights on a 24volt positive ground system. Great feedback and many opinions. I am going to use 24volt lights for the rear of the tractor. That said, wiring in a pair of 24volt lights on my 16, where can I hook into the system to cut in a switch and a couple of lights Hahaha chew on this one. |
Posted By: Jim.ME
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2018 at 8:24am
| I believe you said earlier you already have 24 volt headlights. I would use the same source your current head lights use. Such as if the headlights use a wire coming from the ammeter to the headlight switch, install a new wire from the same terminal on the ammeter to your new switch, which could be mounted near the current head light switch, then run a wire from the switch to your new rear lights. Or you might be able to run a jumper from the power terminal of your current head light switch to your new rear light switch. Install a fuse somewhere in the circuit, near the power source is best. This is personal preference: I would keep the switches near each other; not run an odd power wire to a switch mounted remotely, like by the rear lights, less chance of it getting left on. Some equipment ties the rear lights with the head lights to the same switch, all on at once. Another option: you might change your current switch to a multi position switch, like a universal head light switch. Connect the head lights to the tail light terminal and the rear lights to the head light terminal. Pull to first step for head lights, pull to the second step and you have both head and rear lights. |
Posted By: CAL(KS)
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2018 at 8:36am
|
jerbob I believe the dash switch is for aux lights. 1 is for dash lights other is spare for lighting ok. im wrong. I could have sworn there are 2 switches but only 1 on my machine and only 1 in parts book and it shows all lights hooked to it.
------------- Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20 Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15 |
Posted By: DaveKamp
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2018 at 8:39am
|
A RESISTOR will not make a 12v radio work on 24 volts. To make a 12v radio work on 24 volts requires either a DC-DC converter of sufficient current rating, or just tap across the first battery. Imbalance across the batteries in this application is not a substantial concern- the load, in comparison to the batteries' capacity, is very small. If it's the cab-heater blower fan, that's a different story. As for ammeter, there's no 'voltage' associated with the ammeter's design, only for the illumination of the gauge. If it has a 12v incandescent lamp, just buy a 24v incandescent lamp to fit the same socket (typically they plug into the back), and call it good. Or use an LED that's rated for 9-36v. As for floodlamps, if you're not needing 'authenticity', then look into LED floodlighting. All the units I've been putting on my machines will operate fine over a very wide range... most are rated to over 28v, and will light up on a 9v battery too... ------------- Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest. |
Posted By: jerbob
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2018 at 8:43am
I didn't know know that Cal. i will check that out. My 16 dash switch is the stock unit. Turns left or right and a center position which i assume is off. Manual does not say anything about it but I plan on going over all that when I replaces gauges. Thank you |
Posted By: jerbob
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2018 at 8:44am
Based on what you are saying, I think it makes most sense to just tie into current headlights so when one is on all are on. Thank you. |
Posted By: CAL(KS)
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2018 at 8:45am
|
I edited my post. only 1 switch. ------------- Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20 Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15 |
Posted By: jerbob
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2018 at 8:47am
Good thoughts Dave and thank you. I will admit that I hadn't thought of replacing the 12v light bulb with a 24volt one. That would be great for the added illumination. |
Posted By: Jim.ME
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2018 at 10:25am
| Here is a chart that may help you. It shows comparable style miniature lamps by voltage so you can get the number from the bulb that was with your ammeter and see if there is a bulb of the same style to match in a different voltage. Then you will have a bulb number to give your parts store. uploads/16335/Wagner_bulb_interchange_reference.pdf" rel="nofollow - Wagner_bulb_interchange_reference.pdf |
Posted By: jerbob
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2018 at 10:37am
| Thank you Jim. Handy and now in my archive of tables and saved data. |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2018 at 11:00am
|
re: A RESISTOR will not make a 12v radio work on 24 volts um, it will, providing it's the correct value for the current drawn. Not really any different than using a ballast resistor on a tractor to 'cut down' 12 volts to power a 6 volt coil. The easy nobrainer solution is to use a 24 to 12 volt stepdown 'module' with sufficient current capacity for the radio. It's actually got some 'semiconductors' in it to regulate 24 down to 12, cost maybe $10-15. The real problem is the POSITIVE ground ! Bet there aren't too many radios made for that,and while you could isolate the case from ground, the antenna IS grounded , so POOF..lots of magic black smoke will appear. Have to ask why not convert to NEGATIVE ground? That would get rid of 99% of the problems. Flash the genny, flip + to -, - to + on the ammeter wires. ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2018 at 2:49pm
|
I would agree , changing to a NEGATIVE ground makes things easier to add new equipment......... on the other hand, I don't think he ever mentioned adding a radio.. That was just part of the conversation.. POSITIVE ground is fine for the old tractor with new lights......... If your adding an alternator, radio or "other" it might be best to convert to negative ground at that time to avoid problems. ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2018 at 2:57pm
| And starters do not care either way. |
Posted By: jerbob
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2018 at 4:00pm
|
Correct Everyone. I jumped in on the original post to ask a question regarding adding 12 volt lights to my 24volt 16. At the time I had a couple of nice 12volt lights and thought I would use them. I never brought up the radio think, but for giggles, I do use radio ear muffs for protection and even with them on, hard to hear any music when my 16 is barking. Wanted to thank all the ides and suggestions as it gave me insight as to future work in the wiring department. |