Tricycle front end question
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=111315
Printed Date: 29 Apr 2024 at 7:39am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Tricycle front end question
Posted By: skeeters65
Subject: Tricycle front end question
Date Posted: 01 Sep 2015 at 9:23am
|
Why on all the tricycle 2 tire front ends are the tops of the tires tipped out? Thanks |
Replies:
Posted By: grinder220
Date Posted: 01 Sep 2015 at 9:40am
| I believe to make steering easier. That's my guess |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 01 Sep 2015 at 6:19pm
| Plus, it would look really stupid, the other way around... |
Posted By: screwloose
Date Posted: 01 Sep 2015 at 7:44pm
| Lol Diydave |
Posted By: Brian G. NY
Date Posted: 01 Sep 2015 at 8:11pm
| I always figured it was so that mud, stones and debris would be ejected from between the tires. |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 01 Sep 2015 at 8:36pm
| But pint pepsi bottles would cut out both sidewalls, simultaneously. Don't ask me how I know... |
Posted By: jiminnd
Date Posted: 01 Sep 2015 at 9:35pm
|
You have to have room for the pedastal, if you wanted the wheels straight up and down they would have to be so far apart you would have a hard time getting between corn rows. ------------- 1945 C, 1949 WF and WD, 1981 185, 1982 8030, unknown D14(nonrunner) |
Posted By: DaveKamp
Date Posted: 01 Sep 2015 at 9:41pm
Four reasons: When row-cropping, the tractor's nose must fit between the crops, as must the tires. If the tires were NOT tipped out, the wheels' contact points would be farther out, and the steering pedistal would have to be much skinnier. This causes the tires to roll closer to the crops' root structure, thus, damaging the crop. Second- since the contact patch is close to the axis of steering, any irregularity of the ground under either tire, results in very little reaction at the steering wheel. IF the tires were vertical, and spaced out to clear the pedestal's thick top, a simple rut in the soil would whip the steering wheel out of your hands, or break both your thumbs. Third- when turning a wheel, if you don't 'lean' the tire, the tire's contact force pushes the tire sideways (laterally), and the tire slides because the tread is deflected from the ground. This doesn't happen with the inside tire, because it is now 'tilted' with respect to the axis of turn, the inner tire 'grips' and lifts the soil as you make the turn... and when you 'lean' the tire towards the turn, the tread radius 'climbs' against the soil to make an effective turn. A similar condition exists with wide-front tractors, where 'Ackerman steering' geometry accounts for the fact that the inner front wheel's steering radius angle must be much tighter than the outer wheel... they're turning two different circles. Fourth- it naturally 'sheds' trash. When plowing or cultivating, anything that sheds trash is a good thing. ------------- Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest. |
skeeters65 wrote:Posted By: Ken in Texas
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2015 at 9:15pm
| Why didn't they just make all narrow fronts a true tricycle with a single front wheel? Every Manufacture of tractors made some models with single front wheels. My CA has a single front wheel. I think it's pretty cool since there were so few that left the factory that way. |
Posted By: Dusty MI
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2015 at 7:15am
|
My dad's first tractor was an Farm All F-20, the front wheels/tires were straight. Back then corn rows were 36 to 42 inches apart. I've looked at many F-20s and don't think that I've seen 2 that were alike. Dusty ------------- 917 H, '48 G, '65 D-10 series III "Allis Express" |
Posted By: Spelt Farmer
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2015 at 9:34am
Methinks two tires float better on soft ground. Less compaction too. -Aaron |
Posted By: DaveKamp
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2015 at 12:23am
If you look closely at an SFW setup, there's a shaft extending down from the pedestal, which goes to a yoke, which reaches around the single front tire, to each side of the axle. Because of this yoke, and the distance between ground and underside of tractor, an SFW setup REQUIRES a smaller diameter tire... while a NF dual has tires that are substantially taller- there is no 'yoke' in the way. Larger diameter tires roll over ground less because the attack chord from it's contact point forward is naturally lower. The twin wheels also turn much easier, because the tire treads are not forced to 'scrub' as the wheel is turned- one rolls forward, the other rolls back. Since the wheels are tilted, they roll around an imaginary 'cone' to grant easy steering. A single front wheel must scrub substantially at the pivot point. ------------- Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest. |
Posted By: Ken in Texas
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2015 at 6:02am
|
Thank you Dave for your detailed physics lesson. It is always good to hear you weigh in. Factual and to the point. With all those negatives for the SFW over dual wheel narrow fronts, why are they popular in some farming areas? All I can come up with is a SFW allows for cultivating narrow row spacing used for certain crops, along with narrow rear tires of coarse. Narrow spaced vegetable crops are what made the G so popular with truck farmers. Comparing miles driven straight ahead to miles driven making turns in most typical row crop farming operations it seems sort of odd that ease of turning is so important. |
Posted By: DaveKamp
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2015 at 8:45am
|
The application of SFW was mostly for truck-farming operations- vegatables, etc, where the plants were physically wider and lower, not standing up tall. A dual-wheel NF has a space between where no contact occurs, which the SFW takes advantage of, and in some instances, this allowed setting up a mounted cultivator more effectively for a certain crop. The applicability of any front end system, is all about the crop, how the crop lays, and how the rows are spaced. Realize that there are lots of techniques of mechanical cultivation that farmers used to use, some which apply to some crop styles, that do not apply to others... cross-cultivation was one of them... tractors and implements were fitted up specifically to perform. With advent of genetic herbicide resistance, and intense soil conservation practices, are now obsolete. There are still applications where an SFW setup has advantages, but note that even the dual NF configuration is virtually gone from the dealers' new factory offerings. It's because the cropping philosophy and techniques have changed. It's like noting that nobody uses ear-corn storage techniques anymore... we don't need to. ------------- Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest. |
Posted By: rw
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2015 at 9:51am
| plus you can make it in if one is flat!! |
Posted By: Dick L
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2015 at 11:53am
|
Actually it is as simple as ease of turning the steering wheel. You can turn the rims around and the tires will set wider and see how much harder it is to turn. In the early 1950's when picking corn it would be later in the fall and took more time to pick the corn. This being later in the year much of the time it would be muddy in the corn fields. All most all tractors were narrow front tractors in our area so the front tires would be turned around to keep the mud from packing between the tires and keep them from turning. When spring come and plowing started they were turned around as the one tire would be off the ground and made plowing a real tiring job keeping the tractor straight. Fitting plowed ground the first time over it would want to jerk the steering wheel out of your hands. Dad would leave them turned around thru the winter so the snow didn't pack between the tires. It was always the oh shucks thing after you got in the field in the spring. |
Posted By: Dick L
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2015 at 8:01pm
We have a few large farmers in our area that pick and crib a percentage of their corn. After being air dried in cribs it is trucked to a plant where it is packaged in bundles or bags. It is then sold to town squirrels to feed to squirrels that reside in town. |