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using atf in your diesel fuel or fuel filters

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HudCo View Drop Down
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Joined: 29 Jan 2013
Location: Plymouth Utah
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HudCo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: using atf in your diesel fuel or fuel filters
    Posted: 16 Mar 2024 at 8:46pm
wondering how many poeple still fill their fuel filters with atf when they do an oil change or add a little atf to their fuel , we always did mit to the over the road trucks back in the 80s when the oil and fuel filters was changed i still pour a guart in my pickup about every 200 gallons  i burn 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote plummerscarin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2024 at 8:55pm
I worked for 2 trucking outfits then and never heard of that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HudCo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2024 at 9:32pm
every body did around my area and that was back when diesel was good
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Codger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2024 at 10:00pm
You don't want to get caught around here with red fuel in your on road tanks at all. DOT cops really get a hard on for that. Most cops have a clear hose in the trunk for pulling samples at portable stops for the grain haulers. ATF is not put into the tanks but two stroke oil is commonly used. 

Off road equipment I see with stuck plungers or erratic firing, I dump about  70/30 mix of either ATF/Acetone, or two stroke oil and acetone to clear the varnish this effn biodiesel leaves the safety nazis have inflicted upon us.  
A career built on repairing and improving engineering design deficiencies, shortcomings, and failures over 50 years now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2024 at 10:07pm
that was 20 years ago.... not for the NEW motors..

HISTORY:

ULSD fuel is the fuel currently mandated for use in all on road diesel engines. This fuel burns cleaner and is less polluting than it’s predecessor, called Low Sulfer Diesel Fuel. Low sulfer fuel contained less than 500 ppm of sulfer. ULSD contains 15 ppm or less.
As diesel fuel is further refined to remove the polluting sulfer, it is inadvertently stripped of its lubricating properties. This vital lubrication is a necessary component of the diesel fuel as it prevents wear in the fuel delivery system. Specifically, it lubricates pumps, high pressure pumps and injectors. Traditional Low sulfer diesel fuel typically contained enough lubricating ability to suffice the needs of these vital components. ULSD fuel, on the other hand, is considered to be very “dry” and incapable of lubricating vital fuel delivery components. As a result, these components are at risk of premature and even catastrophic failure when ULSD fuel is introduced to the system. As a result, all oil companies producing ULSD fuel must replace the lost lubricity with additives. All ULSD fuel purchased at retail fuel stations SHOULD be adequately treated with additives to replace this lost lubricity. The potential result of using inadequately treated fuel, as indicated above, can be catastrophic. There have been many documented cases of randomly tested samples of diesel fuel. These tests prove that often times the fuel we purchase is not adequately treated and may therefore contribute to accelerated wear of our fuel delivery systems. For this reason it may be prudent to use an after market diesel fuel additive to ENSURE adequate lubrication of the fuel delivery system. Additionally, many additives can offer added benefits such as cetane improver, and water separators or emulsifiers
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Edited by steve(ill) - 16 Mar 2024 at 10:09pm
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Codger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2024 at 10:17pm
Lot of folks round here run either "Howes", or Power Service products in the older equipment but again two stroke oils are popular too.
A career built on repairing and improving engineering design deficiencies, shortcomings, and failures over 50 years now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WF owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2024 at 6:57am
"Back in the day" (70's and early 80's), some of the "out of the field" tractor pullers around here used to mix some gas with diesel fuel to get it to burn faster. Some added ATF or two cycle oil for added lubrication.
Some truckers did the same thing in the winter to "cut" diesel in extremely cold weather.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8070nc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2024 at 7:50am
Last fall a friend of mine has a D21 he wanted to send to the big D21 get together. He hadnt started it in a good while and when he did some injectors had stuck. He called and asked what he could try short of having them repaired
I told him to try running a good dose of atf through it. It worked. He sent the tractor to the show without having to pull the injectors and have them fixed
1984 80780
1957 D14
DES 300 with 25000 engine
616 tractor
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lars(wi) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2024 at 8:22am
ATF was a good injector cleaner, rather than a ‘lubricant’. If you want your diesel fuel to be more ‘oily’, you would be better off to mix in a conditioner, or 2 cycle oil, or even motor oil.
I tried to follow the science, but it was not there. I then followed the money, and that’s where I found the science.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Codger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2024 at 8:48am
A 20% mixture of straight naptha, (not VM&P Naptha) in diesel, or gasoline is a very good solvent to free up sticky mechanisms in a fuel system and doesn't hurt rubber parts. Not a very good lubricant at all and should only be used in a problem child. It will work faster than ATF in most cases.

I typically administer the mixture via auxiliary pump and do not return it to machine's fuel tank although wouldn't hurt anything. A diesel engine will run a long time idling on a gallon of fuel and solvent blended cycling the mixture through constantly.  
A career built on repairing and improving engineering design deficiencies, shortcomings, and failures over 50 years now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8070nc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2024 at 9:14am
Im not disputing anybody but atf has to have lubricating properties because it came in the hydrostatics on gleaner combines
1984 80780
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DES 300 with 25000 engine
616 tractor
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Codger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2024 at 9:19am
Originally posted by 8070nc 8070nc wrote:

Im not disputing anybody but atf has to have lubricating properties because it came in the hydrostatics on gleaner combines


It is a very good, clean lubricant. It however does not have much in the way of detergent capabilities to suspend and carry away sludge and varnish like engine oils do. 
A career built on repairing and improving engineering design deficiencies, shortcomings, and failures over 50 years now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PaulB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2024 at 10:38am
I have been adding Power Service treatment when I buy diesel fuel ever since the USLD became the only thing available. I've never had a rotary pump seize , the newest thing I own is an 89. Even the newest diesel systems can benefit from a high quality lubrication additive. The next best thing would be 2cycle oil, however that generally will cost more that proper diesel fuel treatment.
  As mentioned above, don't get caught with ANY trace of RED dye of any kind in a Hyway diesel fuel tank, you'll be fined the amount of tax that should have been paid according to the odometer of that vehicle plus all court costs.
  To those that mix a witches brew of diesel and gas, they really don't understand fuel chemistry and are asking for trouble in many ways. 
If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tbran Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2024 at 3:05pm
I have an R72 with M11 - the unit would go to idle at times and not rev up until I hit the header "up" button. We checked everything - Cummins said a new gov was needed ECM.I was about to order the multi thousand unit when we had a delphi pump on a Massey a customer had doing the same thing  even dieing when idled down. I was talking to an service rep who told me "whatever you do do not add about a gallon of ATF to the tank and run it under light varying load for a tank full .  This is not legal under emmission so what ever you do do not do this - are you hearing me ?"  We did and it fixed the sticking metering valve - I added 2.5 gals to about 80 gals on the R72 - after about 4 hours have not had the issue again .  The reason the unit went back to working was the alternator kicked in when the two solenoids were engaged and the extra voltage - pressure - would activate the stuck 'throttle' valve.    After investigation - one should run something in all old systems designed for sulphur fuels at times.  (Sulphur looks like small ball bearings under a microscope we are told and was the lubricating agent in old fuel.)   God bless Al Gore and his minions.. 

Edited by tbran - 17 Mar 2024 at 3:08pm
When told "it's not the money,it's the principle", remember, it's always the money..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8070nc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2024 at 4:58pm
I started adding atf when it got to where fuel filters were rusted inside. I know it probably stop the rusting but i know it will help keep the injection pump and injectors slickened up.
1984 80780
1957 D14
DES 300 with 25000 engine
616 tractor
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IBWD MIke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 2024 at 7:03am
Every time I put fuel in a diesel I add Standyne fuel treatment at the recommended dosage. Half of the injection pumps here are Roosa's, Bosch pumps probably benefit from it too. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WF owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 2024 at 7:28am
Back when we were pulling and I visited the diesel pump shop often, one of the tech's told me that running a diesel out of fuel was comparable for the injection pump to running an engine out of oil. All the lubrication in the pump comes from diesel fuel.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KJCHRIS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 2024 at 4:16pm
40+ years as mechanic/ fleet Mgr. around trucks, heavy equipment and some Ag. Never used any ATF or gasoline in a diesel fuel system. Have heard of it being done  though! 
  I did add a 5 gal can of K1 kerosene along with fuel conditioners into new filters & tank on a gelled semi on a -25* night. I HATED night service calls !! 
 Have used some fuel conditioners to help with water freezing and to lower the cloud/gel points. My 2 top picks would be; Pen Ray or B G products. I don't remember having issues with either when properly used for the specific problem even in B10-B20 Bio-Diesel.
 My advice; only buy what Bio-Diesel you'll use in under 6 months, unless U like fuel system repairs. 
AC 200, CAH, AC185D bareback, AC 180D bareback, D17 III, WF. D17 Blackbar grill, NF. D15 SFW. Case 1175 CAH, Bobcat 543B,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote injpumpEd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2024 at 10:25am
Originally posted by WF owner WF owner wrote:

Back when we were pulling and I visited the diesel pump shop often, one of the tech's told me that running a diesel out of fuel was comparable for the injection pump to running an engine out of oil. All the lubrication in the pump comes from diesel fuel.
I disagree with his statement. When a diesel runs out of fuel, the engine dies and the pump just quits pumping fuel. The fuel is so thin, but it's all over the critical parts, so keeps them protected. An engine running out of oil will keep running until, well it doesn't lol! When it locks up, it is done. If the injection pump could keep being turned with no fuel, this would be bad, but it doesn't. The worse part running a diesel out of fuel is some pumps can be tough to bleed. Inline pumps and Model 100's like on 8000 series get oil from the engine to lube the cam, lifter and governor section, and fuel lubricates the fuel pumping portion. The old days trick was ATF due to it's high detergent. 
210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WF owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2024 at 11:10am
I think what he meant was that diesel fuel was the (Rosa Master) pump's sole source of lubrication and interrupting that lubrication process was not good for the pump. 

Edited by WF owner - 19 Mar 2024 at 11:11am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote injpumpEd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2024 at 3:06pm
My point is that the engine will just die lol! It's not like it can sit there continuing to run with no fuel in the pump lol! Many shops liked to scare people, I never figured out why!
210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Coke-in-MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2024 at 6:43pm
Adding unleaded gas to diesel that will not go through filters helps and have used it a few times ,use to add ATF into fuel container way back when I kept 100 gal tank in back of pickup to fuel equipment . 
 Had the highway patrol follow me into my drive when was running a diesel dump truck , asked to stick the tank - no red in fuel - asked him about ATF coloring and he mentioned most fuels if there is a question they use a fluorescent black light to pick up died fuel mix if their is a question on it . 
  Loading Diesel or fuel oil at refinery the fuel is clear , a metering system adds the die as it flows into tanker , depending on destination different colors can be added . 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IBWD MIke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2024 at 8:43am
Fuel gauge does not work on my 6080, it's on my 'fix it' list but apparently pretty low on said list. Anyway, I have learned, the hard way, when running out of fuel the engine increases R.P.M.'s. Here's your sign, shut that SOB off, walk back to the house and get the pickup and 5 gallon of fuel! If shut down in time, you don't have to bleed the injectors. That tractor is so easy on fuel and it just does loader work, it's really easy to forget about how full the tank is.

Like Ed, I'm not worried about hurting the pump if it runs out of fuel.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve in NJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2024 at 8:53am
I used Power Service additive in all of our Bucket truck fleet when I worked for the Power Co. Never had any issues and our trucks ran all day long when the lineman were working on the lines....
Steve@B&B
39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife
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