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ihscout 
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Location: Northern CO
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 Topic: What am I missing? '40 B
Posted: 22 May 2017 at 10:50am |
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I have a 1940 "B" that was operating well until we had 40" of snow this weekend. I got it stuck and all the sudden the wheels quit turning. The PTO still works fine for running the hydraulic. pump for loader. Yesterday I removed the wheels, hydraulic. pump, PTO housing, trans. cover, final drive pans, and inspected clutch disk and throw out bearing. Clutch seems to work fine. I didn't see any metal or discoloration in the fluids. Nothing seems to be overly loose and all the gears look intact. I put all back together and replaced the fluids. Still not moving. What should I look at next? I can pull everything apart again and provide photos if that would help. Any advice is appreciated. Good thing this is Colorado and the snow is melting on it's own. Believe it or not 42" on the ground Saturday and this morning maybe 6". Thanks again for any ideas
Edited by ihscout - 22 May 2017 at 10:15pm
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'40 AC B - My Pappy always told me "Use your head for something other than a tack hammer!" I did. It makes a great 16 pound sledge hammer.
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Acdiesel
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Posted: 22 May 2017 at 10:55am |
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did you check the ring and pinion gears?
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ihscout
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Posted: 22 May 2017 at 11:51am |
As far as? Everything looked intact and spun when rotated.
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'40 AC B - My Pappy always told me "Use your head for something other than a tack hammer!" I did. It makes a great 16 pound sledge hammer.
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Tracy Martin TN
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Posted: 22 May 2017 at 12:01pm |
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I would bet sheared the rivets on ring gear . I had it happen to a G tractor. Tracy
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No greater gift than healthy grandkids!
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ihscout
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Posted: 22 May 2017 at 12:03pm |
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Are there rivits that hold the gear to the ring?
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'40 AC B - My Pappy always told me "Use your head for something other than a tack hammer!" I did. It makes a great 16 pound sledge hammer.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 22 May 2017 at 12:09pm |
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If the pto is turning, then the clutch and driveshaft to the transmission are working. You can put in gear and let out the clutch and look into the two brake cavities and see if there is input from the bevel gear into the final drive cases. You can also take off the pto cover and start the tractor ( for a minute) and see if the bevel gear is being driven. Either the transmission is not driving the bevel gear, or one of the final drives is broken inside. Like being stuck in the mud.. all the drive goes to one wheel and the other just sets there.. One final broken will take all the drive and the good wheel gets nothing.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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ihscout
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Posted: 22 May 2017 at 12:15pm |
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Thanks. I'll recheck the final drives.
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'40 AC B - My Pappy always told me "Use your head for something other than a tack hammer!" I did. It makes a great 16 pound sledge hammer.
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Gerald J.
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Posted: 22 May 2017 at 1:29pm |
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One hand check of the final drives is to jack the back end off the ground. With the engine stopped and the transmission in gear, turning one rear wheel forward should turn the other backwards if the final drives and the differential are working. If they turn the same direction the transmission to differential connection is broken.
Gerald J.
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ihscout
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Posted: 22 May 2017 at 7:31pm |
Thanks all I had run the tractor briefly on Sunday when the wheels, hydra. pump, pto case , trans. cover and final drive pans were off. The hand brake mechs were also off. Putting it in every gear at idle the wheels turned in opposite directions. While it was turning, I stopped one side by hand (dangerous or not?), the opposing side kept spinning. Gerald J. ? If I can stop one side pretty much effortlessly, could that put the problem at the Trans. / diff. connection? And, if so, what should my next diagnostic step be?
Edited by ihscout - 22 May 2017 at 7:32pm
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'40 AC B - My Pappy always told me "Use your head for something other than a tack hammer!" I did. It makes a great 16 pound sledge hammer.
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Gerald J.
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Posted: 22 May 2017 at 9:21pm |
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It shouldn't be very hard to stop one side if the differential is lubricated normally.
Turning in opposite directions when in gear with the engine idling hints to me at a dragging brake or bearing on the side running in the driven direction causing that shaft to run slower than the differential gears and so causing the opposite side to spin in the opposite direction.
Gerald J.
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ihscout
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Posted: 22 May 2017 at 10:00pm |
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The brake shoes were off and nothing seems to be worn or binding. It seems as though something is completely unhooked if that makes sense. The pinion shaft seems to be operating the ring gear okay
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'40 AC B - My Pappy always told me "Use your head for something other than a tack hammer!" I did. It makes a great 16 pound sledge hammer.
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JC-WI
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Posted: 22 May 2017 at 10:38pm |
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Before you tore it down, you should have simply jacked it up and applied both brakes while in gear and see if it would pull the engine down, and watched the PTO shaft to see ifit stopped turning.
I would have thought both wheels would have turned in the same direction until you grab one wheel and the other wheel will spin twice as fast...
But when you have it in gear with the engine off, and turn the one wheel forward, the other will turn backwards.
Gerald, what you are saying does not make sense to me , I would expect the brake / bearing dragging side would simply stop and the free wheel to turn faster and no wheel turning backwards.
IHScout, bolt that PTO case back on with a couple bolts, engage the PTO
and see if you can turn the engine by the pto shaft. That should tell
you if you stripped the clutch disk/drive shaft hub's rivets. if pto
turns and drags a little and does not turn engine, that probably is your problem. if it turns the engine without slipping, then you got tranny and back problems.
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pumpkinman
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Posted: 22 May 2017 at 10:56pm |
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CHECK REAR WHEEL HUBS ONE MAY BE STRIPED
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ihscout
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Posted: 23 May 2017 at 11:58am |
Thanks I'll check the hubs next.
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'40 AC B - My Pappy always told me "Use your head for something other than a tack hammer!" I did. It makes a great 16 pound sledge hammer.
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tadams(OH)
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Posted: 23 May 2017 at 1:30pm |
Yes, the hub would be my guess
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Bill Long
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Posted: 23 May 2017 at 2:17pm |
IHScout, You have received some excellent information from some outstanding mechanics. I just want to see you get that B running. Can't have my favorite now working right. Let us know how it goes. Good Luck! Bill Long
ps: I would vote for one of the hub centers to be stripped.
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LeonR2013
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Posted: 23 May 2017 at 5:50pm |
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Me too. Happened to a friend of mine. But almost eighty years old. Why not?
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 23 May 2017 at 5:53pm |
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If you strip the hub splines on one rear wheel, it should have quite a bit of SLOP and WOBBLE and be obvious...... but its worth looking at.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 23 May 2017 at 6:00pm |
one good test is with the motor running and in gear. apply the left brake and see if the right wheel starts to drive... then apply the right brake and see if the left wheel starts to drive... If one side works, then you have found a final drive problem ( hub / shaft) ..... if neither side will drive, then you have no output from the bevel gear.. with the PTO housing off, put tractor in gear ... use a prybar to pry the bevel gear in a rotary direction.. should TRY to turn the pinion and rotate the transmission and motor.. If you can move the bevel gear, is the pinion rotation ?? If YES, then problem is in the trans or main clutch. Dick L had a problem last month with a stripped drive shaft from the clutch to the transmission.. that might drag enough to drive the PTO, but not enough to move the tractor.......
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Dick L
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Posted: 23 May 2017 at 6:49pm |
 steve(ill) wrote:
If you strip the hub splines on one rear wheel, it should have quite a bit of SLOP and WOBBLE and be obvious...... but its worth looking at. |
Also if the hub is stripped the nut would be turning even though the wheel didn't turn. this you could see by looking at the outside of the wheels. Seems you would have some kind of noise where it is slipping in the hub. I think after reading all that has been checked I would check the pinion shafts by removing the caps to see if the gears are moving when the tractor is not. If they are turning I would then check the bull gears under the axle. The axle could have twisted off.
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ihscout
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Posted: 26 May 2017 at 11:22am |
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Would the wheel wobble if the hub was broken or damaged somehow? Because when in gear and clutch out the right side wheel has a wobble to it.
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'40 AC B - My Pappy always told me "Use your head for something other than a tack hammer!" I did. It makes a great 16 pound sledge hammer.
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Dick L
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Posted: 26 May 2017 at 11:52am |
ihscout wrote:
Would the wheel wobble if the hub was broken or damaged somehow? Because when in gear and clutch out the right side wheel has a wobble to it. |
If it is wobbling without moving forward or backwards you have found a stripped hub or axle and most likely both. (Would the wheel wobble if the hub was broken or damaged)
Edited by Dick L - 26 May 2017 at 11:54am
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Gary Burnett
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Posted: 26 May 2017 at 4:03pm |
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If its one of the hubs when you hit the brake on that side the tractor should move if the brake holds
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Dick L
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Posted: 26 May 2017 at 5:22pm |
Gary Burnett wrote:
If its one of the hubs when you hit the brake on that side the tractor should move if the brake holds
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Maybe both sides are stripped. 
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ihscout
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Posted: 26 May 2017 at 7:03pm |
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So,,,. It was the hub. The axle splines look fine.
Where can a guy get one of those hubs?
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'40 AC B - My Pappy always told me "Use your head for something other than a tack hammer!" I did. It makes a great 16 pound sledge hammer.
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Gary Burnett
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Posted: 26 May 2017 at 8:46pm |
Dick L wrote:
Gary Burnett wrote:
If its one of the hubs when you hit the brake on that side the tractor should move if the brake holds
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Maybe both sides are stripped. |
I've heard of a lot of things happening to a B but not both hubs stripping at once because as soon as 1 strips the tractor quits pulling.What could happen in theory and practice are two different things.And that's about as a long shot as me running on foot and winning the KY Derby(LOL)
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 26 May 2017 at 8:54pm |
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I had a B tractor with stripped out hub. I bought a good spare on e-bay for about $75.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 26 May 2017 at 8:57pm |
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Gary Burnett
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Posted: 26 May 2017 at 9:08pm |
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It'd be a long drive but I have about 10 B parts tractors.
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