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Silencer223 
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Joined: 27 Aug 2015
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 Topic: HD6G 344 to 7000 military motor
Posted: 03 Sep 2015 at 8:19am |
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I have a 1959 HD6G with a 344. Seized but I can still turn it over slowly. I have found several AC 7000 military surplus engines. Will they bolt to my bell housing? On these motors there is no front pully off the injection pump to drive the fan so how do I fix that problem. I need ALL y'all's opinions and thoughts please.
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ac_sd
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Joined: 23 Apr 2011
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Posted: 03 Sep 2015 at 12:37pm |
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These motors seem to be available here on the West Coast and this is an interesting topic which warrants maybe even a kit to accommodate this swap !!
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DiyDave
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Posted: 03 Sep 2015 at 5:59pm |
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Ian Beale
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Posted: 03 Sep 2015 at 11:04pm |
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Silencer223
This is relative to the 516 engines and I think the front is the same as the 344. Based on experience with rebuilding an AC Forty Five/45 engine.
Early ones drove the fan off the crank pulley with 2 C-section belts and had a tensioner pulley. The fan with those is adjustable for height to suit the shroud - done in the fan mounting bracket.
The ADS 516 (supercharged in AC Forty Five graders) drove the supercharger with a pulley off the front of the injection pump drive. In these the front camshaft bearing is longer than the dozer version. Later series (10000 in AC 45, 11000) didn't use the supercharger and drove the fan off that pulley. I'm not sure if the longer cam bearing was still used.
So you might be able to fit a crank pulley drive and fan assembly from an early engine (fan assemblies are NOT the same - we looked).
Or you might be able to fit the timing case front cover and injection pump drive that yours has.
And I haven't got the HD 11 parts and workshop manuals on borrow now to check more. So both guesses that might not be worth 2 cents.
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Dozer
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Posted: 04 Sep 2015 at 6:20am |
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If I remember correctly these surplus motors came on the market in 2008 for $500. They are an excellent replacement on an HD6. I found out about these surplus motors after I invested $3000 in rebuilding my HD344. Accessories from your HD6 motor are needed to make the 7000 series motor work in your HD6. The exhaust manifold and turbocharger from the 7000 motor are particularly valuable.
Go for it
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mahto48
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Posted: 20 Sep 2015 at 3:13pm |
I put the military 7000 motor in my 1957 HD6E dozer. the blocks are the same so you just strip down to the block on front and bolt on your 344 buda accessories. You will need to use 6000 fuel lines and T into the return line to fit the old injector pump and the different head configuration. You will need to shorten the military oil filter can as they are a different size. Also change the throttle linkage a little at the back of the head. Change your exhaust exit and a little slice in your hood to clear the blower. It was an easy change over and has been well worth the trouble. Also a great money saver. The thing runs on fumes. 
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Mactractor
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Posted: 20 Sep 2015 at 9:49pm |
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A line of wet steer HD11 tractors have the Roosa injection pump like the military 7000. As the 6000/7000 are just the four cylinder versions of the 10000/11000 in HD11, the fan/auxillary drive from the Roosa pumped HD11 engines would allow you to stay with that pump
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Silencer223
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Posted: 21 Sep 2015 at 9:37am |
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Hey mahto48 would you give me a call at your convienence. I need to know more.
Lee
972-837-8368
Thanks
Edited by Silencer223 - 22 Sep 2015 at 8:45am
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Silencer223
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Posted: 24 Sep 2015 at 6:06pm |
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Mactractor do you have any part numbers for that HD11 Roosa pump? I need to find one.
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Silencer223
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Posted: 24 Sep 2015 at 6:16pm |
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Ok so I bit the bullet and have a military 7000 Allis Chalmers motor headed my way. Do I need to put my oil pump and oil pan on this motor? The 7000 military oil pan looks shallow compared to my HD6G. Also where can I get an air cleaner set up for this. I know there are a lot of tractor salvage yards but do yall think the 7g or the HD6 or HD11 setup is what I need? Yalls help is greatly appreciated.
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DMiller
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Posted: 25 Sep 2015 at 8:23am |
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Round filter from the early version 7G might be a good choice, really cannot go 'too big' on filtration save for place to mount it. A lot of manufacturers will give a CI Displacement base value for filters currently available. Late style 7G or HD11 or 11B may just be too large housing size where they are box shaped and maybe difficult to get mounted.
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HD6GTOM
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Posted: 05 Oct 2015 at 10:00pm |
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I have a dry air cleaner off a hd6dozer with the rubber hose. Pm me if you need it. Hd6gtom
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SteveM C/IL
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Posted: 15 Oct 2015 at 7:24am |
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If they will interchange you would be wise to change oil pumps/pan.One steep slope could ruin your day/engine.
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Silencer223
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Posted: 15 Oct 2015 at 3:32pm |
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HD6GTOM I pm'd you
Edited by Silencer223 - 15 Oct 2015 at 3:33pm
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Silencer223
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Posted: 15 Oct 2015 at 3:45pm |
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Ok gentlemen I pulled the oil pm on the 7000 and added my oil pickup tube and my 344 pan to the 700 motor. I originally wanted to install the correct HD7G injection pump on it but after pulling the timing cover off the difference between how the roosa pump is driven and the Bosch is driven just plain scared me. So with a new gaskit I put the 7000 cover back on. So I got a new plan to belt drive the fan. I'm a machinist. That being said I'm going to build a V belt ring to slide over the hydraulic pump adapter that's on the end of the crank. I know a good welder, and that way my fan will drive off the crank and not the injector pump. I will then build a mount for the belt tinsioner than will utilize the timing cover bolts for the mount. What do yall think.
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Ian Beale
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Posted: 15 Oct 2015 at 8:21pm |
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Silencer223
If you do that what about changing the fan belt next time? I'm reminded of our FA 10 dozer where the first ones had the alternator mounted up on top of the engine in fresh air and accessible. Except you had to take the fan off to change the alternator belt. And to take the fan off you have to take the radiator out - not so bad as it is an automotive style one. They woke up after about the first 600 or so. Now you only have to take the radiator out to remove the alternator!
The older style fan drive pulley on the crank ran two belts for the fan drive. It has provision for extra drives to bolt in front - the AC 45's belt drive the PTO for grader controls that way.
On those the fan belt tensioner is mounted in the bracket that holds the fan. Maybe you could adapt one of those?
On the injection pump drive -
First my assumptions from ADS 516 and Bosch pump. Where the pump runs at crank speed and the reduction is in the pump. Correct?
And that the Roosa pump has to turn at half crank speed?
And the fan drive runs at crank speed?
I'd be interested to know how they did that if I've got it straight.
TIA
PS do you happen to have a link that shows this?
Edited by Ian Beale - 15 Oct 2015 at 8:28pm
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Silencer223
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Posted: 07 Mar 2016 at 5:30pm |
Well here she is gentlemen. An HD6G repowered with a 7000 engine. I have been digging with her for about a month now. Awesome engine swap.Thanks for the help. 
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Dozer
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Posted: 08 Mar 2016 at 7:32am |
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Great accomplishment. Are you driving the fan and generator from the crankshaft or the injector pump?
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Silencer223
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Posted: 25 Mar 2016 at 10:43pm |
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Drive the fan from the crankshaft. Early HD6 drove them that way and it will also drive the Hydrilic pump. Flip your belt tensioner 180 deg and rebolt on. You will still use your original 344 top pully and mounting bracket so your generator will work. I used a 24 volt alternator so I modified my bracket. I went with A@I belts and used the smaller length belt to make my adjuster stroke length the shortest it could be. I can send you those numbers so you won't get the wrong belts twice like I did. As for the lower pully I just did a Google search for the part number and one popped up in Pa. I think I paid $150 for it but it solved all my issues. And I really like the Roosa master pump. I just went to the auto parts store and bought an inline adapter for a common spin on caterpillar fuel filter and bolted it to the plate that the double fuel filters bolt to. Simple setup. No fuel pump needed.
Edited by Silencer223 - 25 Mar 2016 at 10:45pm
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LeonR2013
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Posted: 03 Apr 2016 at 8:22am |
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Was I looking at two different tractors? If so I complement both of you. Now that they're up and running you can start collecting parts that you know you will need later. Sprockets, rollers, idlers, anything you can get at a bargain. (relative here) Leon R Cmo
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