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engine problems

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brazosbeef View Drop Down
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Joined: 15 Dec 2013
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brazosbeef Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: engine problems
    Posted: 15 Dec 2013 at 7:20pm
I have a 7020 tractor that was running like a caddillac when i turned it off. No problems at all with this tractor and 4 weeks later I got in it and it would not start. Changed filters and did everthing the dealer told me to do to get it running. Now its at the dealer and they tell me  I have serious engine problems and it has no compression. They tell me i will have to do a complete overhaul. This is something i"ve never run across before, especially after it running perfectly when i turned it off. Has any one ever had this happen. any thoughts. Thanks.
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N6PETE View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote N6PETE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Dec 2013 at 7:36pm
I would require more details. I do not know your dealer nor do I know you, but it sound suspicious to me. Is this on all the cylinders? Do you have a valve stuck? Is the injection pump pumping? etc...... Lots of questions need to be asked before I would allow them to overhaul it.
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DrAllis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Dec 2013 at 8:00pm

Ask them specifically what the compression pressure on each cylinder actually was. When running a compression test with injectors removed and using the starter, you will only get 350-375 PSI (normal unpublished spec) which doesn't match the spec in the Service Manual of 500 psi. Correct way to run this test is with ONE injector removed at a time and engine idling, which they couldn't do because it doesn't run. Sounds like some incompetent technicians to me.

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darrel in ND View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darrel in ND Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Dec 2013 at 8:46pm
Welcome to the forum brazosbeef. Too bad misfortune like this is what had to bring you on board. I sure hope you get to the bottom of the problem a little more painlessly than with a major re-build. Darrel
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tbran View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tbran Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Dec 2013 at 11:51pm
This is probably the tractor we just brought in our shop. Since the customer chose this forum for a second opinion - I told him he was welcomed to get one - then the opinionators here need all the info we have. #1 we were told tractor would only crank on ether - my diagnostic was either plugged or leaking lines/filters, a bad electric transfer pump, low transfer pressure, sticking metering valve or worst case worn head in pump as customer said it ran great after he did get it started. #2Customer told us to pick up 7020 - ask us to see about turning it up as well. We did not try to start til we got in the shop. No fuel to injectors - bled system and checked metering valve, then loosened an injector line. System bled and tractor turned over very fast after battery charging but would not start in warm shop. Tractor emits too much grey white exhaust smoke at cranking speed - even for a 7020. Checked timing. Before we could get to any other checks - less than one minute of total attempted cranking time either piston slap or lower end knocks became audible. Told the tech to stop. I Called customer and told him bad news as my diagnosis of a bad pump head was wrong. He had much worse issues. WORST CASE scenario was total rebuild but we will not continue to crank unit till we find the source of knock. It could either be cracked injector tip loading one cylinder - we doubt that - cracked piston or one gualding or bottom end. By the sound it is in the lower end - bad. Told customer if it were mine I would drop the pan first - then injectors and head - but that he was welcome to have anyone check it out before we started turning wrenches.
Failing that we would have to start exploratory surgery. I told him we would give him the options from patch and repair if we thought it would live as long as the rest of the components; to a complete overhaul or even a used engine replacement as option.
I will call the customer first thing Monday morning to reconfirm all information- before we remove one nut. Now that you know all the information , any advice to customer is welcome.
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DrAllis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2013 at 6:39am
Customer had the best advisor to begin with, AND didn't tell the whole story about "running fine". Nice to hear all the facts !!
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MACK View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MACK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2013 at 6:52am
I did not see where you tried ether in shop to start it. If pump head is bad or delivery spring is broken, they won't start at 100 degrees with out ether.   MACK
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injpumpEd View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote injpumpEd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2013 at 7:57am
I'd bet the pumping plungers stuch from sitting in old fuel. It sat for 4 weeks, but how old was the fuel in the tank? Sounds to me like pump attention is necessary, but if rest is in bad shape, is it worth the $700 pump job? Probably yes! 
210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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Don(MO) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Don(MO) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2013 at 8:23am
Tim I hope you can get him past that crap of him not trusting you. I don't know why some customers will take a tractor(or car, truck) to a shop and then not beleave what the shop said is wrong with it. 
I had a 806 IHC come in the shop years ago that the customer used ether to load the tractor on the trailer to haul it into the shop, all six pistons had holes in the tops from the ether. asked him how much ether he used on it his replay was about one case of it to get the tractor loaded. And the tops side of the rod bearing where beat up too.
3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep.

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Lynn Marshall View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lynn Marshall Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2013 at 8:27am
Strictly my opinion-- On any 7010 or 7020 that I've been around,If you leave the fuel off or are not getting any fuel to the injectors ,there is an audible knocking sound after a continuous cranking cycle. My experience is mostly on power director tractors,so gear train noise may factor into this. I will say that the noise is probably worse when using a remote starter switch.When a person has their foot on the clutch pedal while cranking,pressure should build to the tranny brake and help to deaden some of the gear train clatter.I think that I would try to determine why it's not getting any fuel to the injectors first. Injector pumps can sure do some crazy things. If you get fuel to the cylinders and can get it to fire,I wouldn't be afraid to run it for a short time. If there is internal damage,I doubt that you will make it much worse by running it for a brief period. Unfortunately,a brand new fuel system won't make a worn out engine start very easily nor will a brand new engine start very good with a worn out fuel system. Good luck.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tornado8070 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2013 at 12:35pm
I have been a member of the forum since last march. I can say that any or most of the posts tbran brings forth is trying to help someone with a mechanical issue weather it be a tractor or combine. I have read most of these posts and he seems to be very knowledgable is his posts, as well as numerous others on the forum are as well. I would feel that if your tractor is in his personal hands for repair I would have confidence that it will get repaired correctly without "getting taken for a ride". all these posts bring valid opinions to the problem and sounds like some more trouble shooting and wrenching needs to be done. Not trusting your mechanic is not a good way to do business, however talking with him and making sure you and him are one the same page will have a far greater result in the end...probly in your tractor performance after it is fixed and your final bill. Good luck with your tractor IT IS IN VERY GOOD HANDS!
83' 8070 MFWD, 83' 8050 MFWD, 83' 8030, 82' 8010, 79' 7020, 72' 160.
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Tracy Martin TN View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tracy Martin TN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2013 at 1:28pm
I think both of the B&G Equipments are top notch in knowledge and trust worthy. Dealt with both places numerous times. I would reccomend  them myself. Tracy Martin
Liberals should know this by now. Voting for Obama the first time was ignorant, voting for him the second time was just stupid.
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N6PETE View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote N6PETE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2013 at 1:40pm
tbran is da man!!!! As Paul Harvey used to say "And that's the rest of the story"
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SteveM C/IL View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveM C/IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2013 at 8:45pm
Tim has been around the block several times....several blocks too! LOL "Been there,done that" too many years to not have a sequential plan for diagnostic and repairs. Best follow his advice for best results.
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