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185 pto

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AC 7060 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 26 Sep 2013 at 4:20pm
I seen a 185 to day with dual speed PTO is it also a true live PTOe
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Skyhighballoon(MO) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skyhighballoon(MO) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2013 at 4:57pm
It's a live PTO using the PD hand clutch to stop tractor motion but keep the PTO running but it's not Independent so when you depress the foot clutch it stops.  If it has the hydraulic PTO clutch you can start/stop the PTO w/o depressing the foot clutch first but again the foot clutch still cuts power to the PTO.   Mike
1969 One-Eighty gas
1965 D17 Series IV gas
1963 D17 Series III gas
1956 WD45 gas NF PS
1968 Gleaner EIII w/ 10' & 330
1956 All-Crop 66 Big Bin, 303 wire baler
716H, 712H mowers
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Hudsonator View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hudsonator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 2013 at 6:58pm

Is it possible to change a 540 only 185 into a dual pto?  Is the planetary for the dual pto in the lift-arm housing that unbolts from the differential, or is the dual pto rear end and differential housing entirely different?

There isn't much a WC can't do.

WD's just do it better.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 2013 at 7:10pm
To change to 540/1000 you must change the lift arm housing first. Then, unless you change the two gears up inside the PTO clutch box, you'll only have 540 speed when it is on 1000 RPM shaft and even less than 540 when you are on the 540 shaft.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hudsonator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 2013 at 8:55pm
Well dang!  I was hoping they'd geared it up to 1000 from 540 with the planetary.
 
I've also had an Allis mechanic inform me through PM that I'd need a different shaft through the transmission to pull off the swap too.  That it also takes a different intermediate shaft from the PD housing to the lift arm assembly/dual pto outfit.
 
I really need to get myself a parts book for these tractors.
There isn't much a WC can't do.

WD's just do it better.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 2013 at 9:07pm
Yes, it does take a different shaft from the torque tube to the lift arm housing, but you'd source that from the donor tractor for the lift arm housing as a rule.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JC(WI) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2013 at 3:06am

Well, I don't know if I should even suggest this but, if you take the measurements of the 1000 side then flip the pto hub over to the 540 side and lay the 1000 pattern there and drill in between the centers of the origional holes, Then measure relief for stand out and make a shim of that thickness and bolt in between when using 540 stub and thousand pto shaft.

180-185
Single spd pto at 540 is 1963 engine speed,
while the two spd 540 is 2084.
whilest a 540 stub bolted to the 1000 shaft to turn at 540 will be 1146 engine RPM
or 605 at 1284.
  D17, 170,  and 175, the 540 pto spd is equatted to engine spd 1623. Like the old slower spds , not burning fuel on light duty jobs,  but heavy applications--, like the more cylinders turning over per revolution of pto.
170- 4 cyl. 1623-540 = 3 turns of crankshaft... 6 power strokes (PS)... every 60 degrees of the shaft... 
 180- 6 cyl. - 1963 - 540 - 3.635 = 10.9 (PS) =33 degrees ...
 180 2spd.  - 2084 - 540 - 3.859 = 11.5777 = 31 degrees 
 180- 1146 - 540 - 2.1222222 = 4.2444444 = 84.8 degrees
just some goofy numbers 


Edited by JC(WI) - 28 Sep 2013 at 3:16am
He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself
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DrAllis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2013 at 5:58am
Yes, but why would one go to the trouble of instaling a dual PTO lift arm housing just to not have 1000 RPM's at all ??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hudsonator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2013 at 12:09pm
This is all shaping up to be a pretty invasive surgery.
 
I don't have my IT manual handy, or a parts manual, but its looking like:
 
1.) the PTO gearing has to be changed both on the main pto powershaft and pto unit. which means a torque tube disassembly and pto unit disassembly.
2.) the intermediate shaft has to be changed from the torque tube through the transmission.  I don't suspect this can be done without splitting the trans from the Power Director
3.) changing the lift arm housing that contains the dual pto apparatus.
 
I really don't understand why Allis didn't just use the planetary to change the pto speeds instead of re-gearing the whole pto unit to boot.
 
If / when I have to be so invasive into the rear end - I'll consider doing this swap because I'd really like to have the dual pto on my 185.   But its certainly nothing I'm going to tear into a perfectly good funtioning (that doesn't jump out of any gear) 185 to accomplish.
There isn't much a WC can't do.

WD's just do it better.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2013 at 6:56pm
Not as bad as you think. Removal of the PTO clutch box just requires about 10 -3/8" bolts and two dowels and two oil lines. It drops right out from under the torque housing. The drive gear is accessible once the box is dropped. The driven/clutch gear is inside the box. No split required. I promise.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WD45 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2013 at 9:27pm
Our 185 has the two speed pto plus a turbo which makes it one sweet tractor.
Fred Dunlop, G,B,CA, WC,WF, 3 WD45`s,gas, diesel and LP,D10 series III, D12,D14,D15 SERIES II,D17 Series IV in Gas and Diesel ,D19 GAS and D21,170 185,210 ,220 an I-600 FORK LIFT.716H,1920H and 720.
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