Unofficial Allis Homepage
[Main Page] [Owners Registry] [Allis Store] [Parts Etc.]
Forum Home Forum Home > Allis Chalmers > Construction and other equipment
  New Posts New Posts
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

6138 TRUCK ENGINE?

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Message
big al View Drop Down
Silver Level
Silver Level
Avatar

Joined: 15 Apr 2010
Location: indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 130
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote big al Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 6138 TRUCK ENGINE?
    Posted: 01 Aug 2013 at 6:03pm
FOUND OUT THAT AFTER THE BIG WIGS AT CORP.DECIDED TO STOP OFFERING THE 25000 TRUCK ENGINE IN 1976,THE PURPLE PROGRAM CONTINUED ON.BY THE END OF THE EARLY 80'S THE ENGINE SEEN OVER A HUNDRED UPDATES.IT WAS READY TO GO BACK IN THE TRUCK,IN FACT THE ENGINE WAS ABUSE TESTED AT 675HP WITHOUT ANY FAILURES!!!THIS WAS ALL CONFIRMED TODAY BUY THE TWO ENGINEERS THAT HEADED THE PROGRAM.APPARENTLY THE ENGINE WAS READY TO GO BUT ALLIS WAS BLEEDING TO DEATH(REMEMBER THIS WAS THE RECESSION WHEN NOTHING WAS SELLING AND IF YOU COULD GET A LOAN IT WAS 20%+INTEREST)JEFF AND I ARE WORKING WITH THE RETIRED ENGINEERS TO GO OVER THERE DOCUMENTS TO BUILD SOME OF THESE MOTORS.
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
DougG View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 20 Sep 2009
Location: Linn Mo
Status: Offline
Points: 2808
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DougG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2013 at 6:06pm
Wish it coulda been a reality,
Back to Top
HD6 Merv View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 03 Aug 2010
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 247
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HD6 Merv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2013 at 9:40pm
wonder what box it would have had behind it ??
Biggest roadranger back then would have been a 1200 series ??
tits tyres and tracks
they all cost you money
Back to Top
DonDittmar View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 15 Sep 2009
Location: MIllersburg, MI
Status: Offline
Points: 1632
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonDittmar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 2013 at 6:52pm
Update please
Experience is a fancy name for past mistakes

1968 D15D,1958 D17D,1962 D19D
Also 1965 Cub Loboy and 1958 JD 720 Diesel Pony Start
Back to Top
Calvin Schmidt View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Ontario Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 2501
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Calvin Schmidt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 2013 at 8:43pm
I had a late 25000 MK II a few years ago that was high enough serial # to have all the updates that the 6138 had. 900hrs. Finally sold it for $3500. Would have made a great truck engine but too many projects. 

Edited by Calvin Schmidt - 07 Aug 2013 at 8:44pm
Nothing is impossible if it is properly financed
Back to Top
big al View Drop Down
Silver Level
Silver Level
Avatar

Joined: 15 Apr 2010
Location: indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 130
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote big al Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 2013 at 10:25pm
JEFF H. & I FOUND A STASH OF SOME BIG AL PARTS OUT EAST,GOING TO SEE A PARTS LIST SHORTLY.GOING TO SEND A TRUCK BELL HOUSING TO A PATTERN MAKER IN THE NEXT COUPLE OF MONTHS AND CAST APPROX.25 OF THEM.WE WILL MACHINE OVER THE WINTER AND WOULD BE AVAILABLE NEXT YEAR WITH A MATCHING FLYWHEEL.GOING TO RECEIVE ALL THE PURPLE ENGINE SALES BROCHURES TO POST NEXT COUPLE OF DAYS(301-844)RECEIVING NEXT BATCH OF FILES FROM THE ENGINEER IN THE NEXT MONTH.HAVE MORE TO TELL ABOUT 6138.FOUND DOCUMENT DATED 1972 DISCUSSING ENGINE BRAKE WITH JACOBS.GUY IN CHARGE OF PROJECT DIED AND PROJECT GOT BURIED.
Back to Top
DonDittmar View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 15 Sep 2009
Location: MIllersburg, MI
Status: Offline
Points: 1632
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonDittmar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2013 at 6:26pm
This just keeps gittin better. Keep the info coming
Experience is a fancy name for past mistakes

1968 D15D,1958 D17D,1962 D19D
Also 1965 Cub Loboy and 1958 JD 720 Diesel Pony Start
Back to Top
DonDittmar View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 15 Sep 2009
Location: MIllersburg, MI
Status: Offline
Points: 1632
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonDittmar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug 2013 at 7:40pm
Bump. Update?
Experience is a fancy name for past mistakes

1968 D15D,1958 D17D,1962 D19D
Also 1965 Cub Loboy and 1958 JD 720 Diesel Pony Start
Back to Top
Lazyts View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 05 Feb 2012
Location: Manitoba
Status: Offline
Points: 281
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lazyts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug 2013 at 11:15pm
Just wondering if somebody knows what the difference is between the Thousand Series and the MK2 engines.  I always assumed it was piston cooling, but it appears the piston cooling came before the MK2 designation- on the 11000 at least.  Maybe an official source would know.
I'm also curious about the Japanese crankshafts...

Interesting thread, I like these old stories.  I was reading in an old Reporter magazine from the early seventies how Allis had a whole fleet of Mack Western FS-700 trucks with Allis Chalmers 25000 diesels, pulling parts out of the Carol Stream warehouse. (375 hp)  Pretty impressive- we're talking about an era when a big farm tractor had 200 hp, and if you wanted big power, you needed a big engine.  Not like today, when we're making big power with relatively small power plants.
Back to Top
DonDittmar View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 15 Sep 2009
Location: MIllersburg, MI
Status: Offline
Points: 1632
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonDittmar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2013 at 7:24pm
BTT for update
Experience is a fancy name for past mistakes

1968 D15D,1958 D17D,1962 D19D
Also 1965 Cub Loboy and 1958 JD 720 Diesel Pony Start
Back to Top
cumminskta600 View Drop Down
Silver Level
Silver Level


Joined: 01 Dec 2012
Location: Buffalo NY
Status: Offline
Points: 66
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cumminskta600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2013 at 8:36pm
@ Lazyt Can you please scan and give more info on the Allis reporter you are talking about- Jeff
Back to Top
Lazyts View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 05 Feb 2012
Location: Manitoba
Status: Offline
Points: 281
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lazyts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2013 at 9:55pm
It was actually an article about the Allis parts warehouse, (Carol Stream, IL) originally printed in "Diesel and Gas Turbine Progress" magazine.
All it really says about the trucks is this:
"The Parts Division has recently taken delivery of 22 new replacement units for its fleet: these are Mack series FS-700 tractors built by Mack Western and are all powered with the Allis-Chalmers 25000 engine, producing 375 horsepower at 2100 rpm."

(Allis-Chalmers Reporter magazine, Vol. 33 No. 1)
Back to Top
DonDittmar View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 15 Sep 2009
Location: MIllersburg, MI
Status: Offline
Points: 1632
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonDittmar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct 2013 at 4:37pm
Btt again. I for one is still interested in this one
Experience is a fancy name for past mistakes

1968 D15D,1958 D17D,1962 D19D
Also 1965 Cub Loboy and 1958 JD 720 Diesel Pony Start
Back to Top
CAL(KS) View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 18 Sep 2009
Location: Chapman, KS
Status: Offline
Points: 936
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CAL(KS) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 2013 at 7:42pm
another bump and question


so after reading above post about having parts cast,   is there is a special bellhousing/ adapter that is needed to put one of these engines in a truck?   im curious as to the feasability of putting a 6120 (4w-305 or 8550) into a truck.   no it wouldnt be a purple truck engine but what exactly is required to mate to truck trans. ie flywheel and clutch?   I was thinking the bellhousings were standardized to accomodate a common pattern among all engines?  or is it standard on the trans side?  what would a person need to accomplish this?


Edited by CAL(KS) - 10 Nov 2013 at 7:44pm
Me - U,UC,WC,WD,WD45,190XT,TL-12, HD16

Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, R62, R72 HD15
Back to Top
cumminskta600 View Drop Down
Silver Level
Silver Level


Joined: 01 Dec 2012
Location: Buffalo NY
Status: Offline
Points: 66
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cumminskta600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 2013 at 8:09pm
Hello, The 6120 Block is the same as the 6138. You would need a SAE 1 Bell housing/flywheel to accept a 14'' or 15/1/2'' clutch
Back to Top
cumminskta600 View Drop Down
Silver Level
Silver Level


Joined: 01 Dec 2012
Location: Buffalo NY
Status: Offline
Points: 66
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cumminskta600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 2013 at 8:11pm
Also, rear sealing/Crank surface is critical on these engines so jamming a CUMMINS Bellhousing up would not work on the back of a Allis Chalmers for example..... Hope that helps.            Jeff
Back to Top
tbran View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Paris Tn
Status: Offline
Points: 702
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tbran Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2013 at 9:06pm
we have a block if anyone is in need.....
Back to Top
Calvin Schmidt View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Ontario Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 2501
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Calvin Schmidt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2013 at 8:34am
My un-educated guess is that the best source of a SAE bellhousing suitable for a truck application would be from an old genset. I'm sure A-C built a lot more gensets with the 844 engine then they did for trucks.
Nothing is impossible if it is properly financed
Back to Top
cumminskta600 View Drop Down
Silver Level
Silver Level


Joined: 01 Dec 2012
Location: Buffalo NY
Status: Offline
Points: 66
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cumminskta600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2013 at 8:40am
what is your block a 6138 or a 25000, I am interested. Hello Calvin, I wish they were that simple but most gensets had a SAE "0" Bell housing and a Automotive application usually takes a SAE "1" For a Big transmission for the big al. I am also looking for a guy in NY who called me over the summer said he had a 25000 on a air compressor. He wanted 8500.00 for it and Id like to tak to him again
Back to Top
cumminskta600 View Drop Down
Silver Level
Silver Level


Joined: 01 Dec 2012
Location: Buffalo NY
Status: Offline
Points: 66
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cumminskta600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2013 at 8:41am
Interested in your Block 6120,6138, 25000?
Back to Top
tbran View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Paris Tn
Status: Offline
Points: 702
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tbran Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2013 at 7:13pm

The block we have came out of a 8550- it still has some rods but no crank.

Back to Top
cumminskta600 View Drop Down
Silver Level
Silver Level


Joined: 01 Dec 2012
Location: Buffalo NY
Status: Offline
Points: 66
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cumminskta600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2013 at 10:31pm
What do you want for it?
Back to Top
Buckeye Chalmers View Drop Down
Silver Level
Silver Level


Joined: 20 Sep 2009
Location: Ohio
Status: Offline
Points: 145
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Buckeye Chalmers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2013 at 10:35pm
Does anyone have a copy of the Reporter that features the purple engine?
Back to Top
cumminskta600 View Drop Down
Silver Level
Silver Level


Joined: 01 Dec 2012
Location: Buffalo NY
Status: Offline
Points: 66
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cumminskta600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2013 at 6:31am
I wish
Back to Top
cumminskta600 View Drop Down
Silver Level
Silver Level


Joined: 01 Dec 2012
Location: Buffalo NY
Status: Offline
Points: 66
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cumminskta600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2013 at 12:06pm
I made a page on Facebook I put a lot of pics up of the BIG AL engine it is labeled ALLIS CHALMERS BIG AL TRUCK ENGINE.
Back to Top
DonDittmar View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 15 Sep 2009
Location: MIllersburg, MI
Status: Offline
Points: 1632
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonDittmar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2013 at 7:15pm
Originally posted by cumminskta600 cumminskta600 wrote:

I made a page on Facebook I put a lot of pics up of the BIG AL engine it is labeled ALLIS CHALMERS BIG AL TRUCK ENGINE.


I haven't been able to find it. Can you post a link?
Experience is a fancy name for past mistakes

1968 D15D,1958 D17D,1962 D19D
Also 1965 Cub Loboy and 1958 JD 720 Diesel Pony Start
Back to Top
cumminskta600 View Drop Down
Silver Level
Silver Level


Joined: 01 Dec 2012
Location: Buffalo NY
Status: Offline
Points: 66
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cumminskta600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 2013 at 10:06pm
Don do you have a Facebook page?
Back to Top
AC7060IL View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 19 Aug 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 453
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AC7060IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Dec 2013 at 4:41am
Bump. I find your Big Al info interesting. Thanks for sharing.
Back to Top
Oldred View Drop Down
Bronze Level
Bronze Level


Joined: 21 May 2010
Location: Alberta, Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 19
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oldred Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Dec 2013 at 10:04am
Originally posted by cumminskta600 cumminskta600 wrote:

Hello, The 6120 Block is the same as the 6138. You would need a SAE 1 Bell housing/flywheel to accept a 14'' or 15/1/2'' clutch
 
This means a 6138 would be a fairly easy swap into a 4W305 if the blocks are same ? Is the 25000 series the same block also or different ? Is the lowest horsepower rating around 375 ?
 
Thanks for any info Mark
Back to Top
cumminskta600 View Drop Down
Silver Level
Silver Level


Joined: 01 Dec 2012
Location: Buffalo NY
Status: Offline
Points: 66
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cumminskta600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Dec 2013 at 1:08pm
Hello Mark, Yes a 6138 back of engine block bolt pattern is the same. My Friend Jack said that they detuned the 6138 to a 6120 because the Transmission wouldn't take the torque/abuse of the 6138 but I would imagine if you are gentle things might stay together. Well you should be able to detune the pump to any specs that you would want with in reason to ease the pain on the transmission.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 10.03
Copyright ©2001-2011 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.109 seconds.


Help Support the
Unofficial Allis Forum