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Health Insurance Dropping 50% with "Obamacare"

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AllisUpstate View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AllisUpstate Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jul 2013 at 7:13pm
IL, I do very much get the point.  There are thousands of people driving around without insurance, and forcing your premiums up.

So who has the right to "privacy?" The Idiot who refuses to buy insurance, or you who is forced to pay for his or her irresponsibility?

A Constitutional level question for sure. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DiyDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jul 2013 at 7:43pm
Allis uptight you don't get it at all.  Bummercare is but a stepping stone, to wipe out private insurance companies.  Then the central planning bureau steps in to insure only those they deem worthy of insuring.  If you are too old, take a pain pill.  If you are conservative, conserve your health, you will need it! It's already happening, look around and observe!  Pretty soon, we will get to be happy campers, in those camps where we can concentrate on staying alive as slaves!  It has all been done to death (40-100 million, if you add up hitler and stalin), and all the rest of the socialists and communists!

Here is the ending scene of the logic of obummercare:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IKVj4l5GU4


Edited by DiyDave - 19 Jul 2013 at 7:51pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AllisUpstate Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jul 2013 at 8:02pm
Dave,

That hasn't happened yet, and if things went that way, I would work against it. 

For the here and now, I think the argument for maintaining a minimum level of personal financial responsibility trumps arguments against potential abuses.

I think we have more immediate threats to our personal data than Obamacare. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AllisUpstate Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jul 2013 at 8:20pm
Dave,

That hasn't happened yet, and if things went that way, I would work against it. 

For the here and now, I think the argument for maintaining a minimum level of personal financial responsibility trumps arguments against potential abuses.

I think we have more immediate threats to our personal data than Obamacare. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DiyDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jul 2013 at 8:55pm
Problem is is that hindsight is always 20/20, but foresight os not the government's forte.

You are right with all the other "data" the bummer is trying to collect, healthcare seems minor. But, when you are up to your aCensoreds in alligators, it is too late to drain the swamp.

Therefore I resolve to fight all facets of obummerrule, hopefully before they are enacted!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cornbinder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jul 2013 at 6:23am
Originally posted by Lonn Lonn wrote:


Originally posted by AllisUpstate AllisUpstate wrote:

No one implied the Kool Aide or the Cheese if free.  I don't see where purchasing mandatory insurance constitutes free cheese. 

So instead of personal attacks, what do you think would be a better approach - especially since the old system was broken?





Do you believe it's constitutional to force people to buy insurance? Secondly, And maybe it should have been firstly, have you ever read the entire Constitution and what Washington, Jefferson etc wrote when debating the Articles of Confederation, the Constitution and back to the Declaration of Independence? Show me where the government has the power to force anyone to buy insurance or anything else.

you hit the nail squarely on the head!! like I have state many of times the gov. has their corrupt hands in to much that they are not supposed to! T305 and jonnie( I got my head up my rear end) putt putt that's what the tea part is all about. they are against "big government" taking away our rights, an trying to uphold the guidelines of our original constitution.

Edited by cornbinder - 20 Jul 2013 at 6:28am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LouSWPA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jul 2013 at 7:26am
Originally posted by AllisUpstate AllisUpstate wrote:

As many of you have read for sure, the NYT reported that the projected premiums for health insurance have dropped by over 50% for the new rates taking effect next year. 

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/17/health/health-plan-cost-for-new-yorkers-set-to-fall-50.html?pagewanted=all&_r=3&

The healthcare law was of course a Republican idea, that each citizen must take personal responsibility for covering their inevitable health expenses, rather than asking taxpayers to cover them in an emergency room. 

It's working.  By having both sick and well individuals in the system, health insurance costs are dropping as predicted, and my taxes are not going up to cover those who don't want to take personal responsibility for their own health care costs.

So, do I understand you correctly, that you are implying that health care insurance premiums have dropped 50% in NY as a result of Obamacare? If so, I'm confused, because I thought the implementation of Bummercare had been put off until after the midterm elections, except for the tax collections......maybe I'm missing something
I am still confident of this;
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Wait for the Lord;
be strong and take heart and wait for the Lord. Ps 27
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LouSWPA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jul 2013 at 7:29am
Originally posted by AllisUpstate AllisUpstate wrote:

I figure this topic will generate a lot of "interest" if not hostility, so let me clarify this particular article a bit to save a few posts.  Here is a quote from the NYT article itself:

"State insurance regulators say they have approved rates for 2014 that are at least 50 percent lower on average than those currently available in New York. Beginning in October, individuals in New York City who now pay $1,000 a month or more for coverage will be able to shop for health insurance for as little as $308 monthly. With federal subsidies, the cost will be even lower. ...

The rates for small businesses, which are considerably lower than for individuals, will not fall as precipitously. But small businesses will be eligible for tax credits, and the exchanges will make it easier for them to select a plan. Roughly 15,000 plans are available today to small businesses, and choosing among them is particularly challenging."

NPR had a fairly extensive piece on this article and health care costs in other states the other night.  In general, places like NY, CA, Colorado and most of the New England states are seeing overall reductions in insurance rates as the new exchanges are starting to take effect, since these states had more stringent requirements originally in terms of who must be covered and minimum coverages are seeing rates drop, while other states such as SC are seeing modest increases in premiums, as insurers are being forced to meet minimum coverage requirements.  Overall, as these new health exchanges kick in, and bring millions of younger, healthier people into the system, (you mean force people to purchase something they may not need or want or use, so as to pay for someone else's use) coverages and average rates should start to equalize over the long term.   
I am still confident of this;
I will see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living.
Wait for the Lord;
be strong and take heart and wait for the Lord. Ps 27
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LouSWPA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jul 2013 at 7:42am
Originally posted by AllisUpstate AllisUpstate wrote:

Coke,

It seems to me that the posts you show above exactly point out the problem.  Republicans and Democrats have agreed for years, that health care costs were, and are going to drown our economy if not brought under control.  The increase in health costs from 2003-2011 of 62% are exactly the problem that needs to be solved, in addition to Medicare/Medicaid reforms.  And of course, with those kind of cost increases, millions either avoided buying insurance and relied on emergency room service, or went into bankruptcy when a health care crisis happened.  Or, they were denied coverage altogether by companies if they got sick.  "Obamacare" was an attempt to try to slowly bend the curve downward on these spiraling trends, partly by sharing the risks and forcing the healthy to plan for their costs as well as the sick, do you hear what you are saying here? this does not reduce the "spiraling" costs, it just forces someone else to pay them! and by trying to implement reforms in terms of hospital charges, etc.  Something had to be done, as the old system wasn't working.  Also, some of those costs cited in the articles relate to just how expensive modern medicine has become.  I had some heart issues a few years ago, and all it took were a few angiograms and other tests to run the bill up to well over $20,000.  I know people treated for strokes where the bills were well over $100,000, and where do you suppose a large chunk of this cost goes? I can tell you a large percentage goes to offsetting losses in indigent care and frivolous lawsuits. Obamacare forces people to purchase something they may not need, or want, or use to cover the costs of others.......so what's changed? and what about the frivolous law suits, what's Obama doing about that issue? but they recovered and went back to work.  In the good old days, you just dropped dead, but today it seems even minor procedures cost huge amounts of money.  This has nothing to do with Obamacare.  Probably one of the most effective cost saving measures in any medical system is getting people to get early checkups, where a few $ a month in a hypertension medication will save hundreds of thousands of dollars in treating strokes and such.   Of course, it doesn't help that as a Nation, the Baby Boomers are getting older, and using vastly more medical resources than ever before. 

For those rabidly opposed to requiring universal health insurance (Obamacare) I'm curious what alternate approach you think might work better?
I am still confident of this;
I will see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living.
Wait for the Lord;
be strong and take heart and wait for the Lord. Ps 27
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jul 2013 at 8:14am
IF the premiums are dropping from $1000. for an INDIVIDUAL to $500. for an INDIVIDUAL... your getting one HECK OF A DEAL !! LOL.. You can get INDIVIDUAL insurance in most states for that.  LOL
like them all, but collect the little Bs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LouSWPA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jul 2013 at 8:29am
Originally posted by AllisUpstate AllisUpstate wrote:

I agree.  We have a small business of 20 employees that we started from scratch.  From day one we always had health insurance for ourselves, then our first employee, then the second, etc. even though we were never required to provide it, and we couldn't really afford it as a small business.  However, we found a way to afford it, as we always considered it a necessary cost of business rather than an option. That's great, good for you! however, your benevolance is not someone else's responsibility! since when did it become the responsibilityof an employer to provide anything but a previously agreed upon wage for work preformed? If an employer wishes to provide benefits so as to attract employees, so be it but it is by no means any sort of requirement   So I don't have tremendous sympathy for small companies complaining that it is too expensive to provide health insurance for their employees, but would argue instead that their labor costs have been kept artificially low by not buying insurance.  In this country, we like to pass costs through businesses where they are less visible, agreed, but that's a different issue, individual healthcare costs are being passed through business only because they are being assumed by business in the first place even though in the end the cost has to be paid somewhere in higher prices.  The AN alternative, not THE alternative! see, this is where the liberal cradle to grave government care and oversight attitude irks me! you assume that your way is the only way! only the government can take care of me! why couldn't we have a catastrophic insurance program that would cover anything over some trigger level, and the individual be responsible for anything under that? you can't afford it, you don't get it. anything under the ntrigger level could be helped with personal medical savings accounts, sorta like flex spending accounts? there are plenty of simpler, cheaper, less intrusive ways of handling the problem. alternative is a national health care system where taxes support it for everyone, rather than hidden taxes on businesses.  The bottom line though, is everyone gets sick at some point, and it has to be paid for somehow.  A young person who evades personal responsibility by not carrying insurance much like he evades personal responsibility of building roads because he rides a bike and doesn't pay fuel tax? (probably because he can't afford it) is indirectly gaming the system, hoping he or his kids won't get sick.  When they do, and he can't afford it or goes bankrupt but still can't cover the bills, taxpayers ultimately support him by having to support the emergency room at the local hospital.  So we all pay, one way or the other. this is because, for some reason, we have arrived at the asumption in this country that everbody is ENTITLED to the very best. Welfare queens with cellphones and buying steak and driving public provided vehicles instead of taking a bus, and yes top notch healthcare. Your definition of "personal responsibility" is a bit warped. If you cannot afford it, you don't get it. Other than the most basic triage, people should be responsibile for thereownselves! period! end of story! not spread their costs onto someone else who may be more responsible. we will NEVER see any reduction in over all costs, or wastes, as long as we can simply continue to spread the bill over everybody! Obamacare will simply hide the problem, not solve it. Your ascertion that we all pay, one way or the other is correct, but we will all pay a lot less if we are each held to getting what we can afford, and paying for what we get, be it direct care, or insurance for that care

It seems the problem is twofold.  First, getting everyone to accept responsibility for their ultimate healtcare costs and second figuring out how to reduce the enormous costs of modern medicine. 

Obamacare tries to tackle the first problem, and while I don't particularly support subsidizing individuals in purchasing their insurance, I can live with it for those near the poverty line.  However, as millions of new, healthy customers are forced FORCED is about right! but I thought this was USA, not communist Russia or China into the system, everyone's share Share? all things equal eh, commrade? of the healthcare costs should go down - which is the point of the NYT article.  It won't be a perfect process, but logically it should work as both healthy and sick people share the risks and the costs of healthcare. 

The second problem with the cost of medicine is a lot harder to fix.  A decent basic MRI instrument costs near $1,000,000 just to buy, and much more to maintain and operate.  I was at a training course last week in SF on mass spectrometry.  A decent mass spec runs about $500,000 anymore, and costs well over $50K per year in routine maintenance.  There are labs that run banks of these things for routine testing of lipids, steroids, drugs, pesticides etc.  The information they can provide is life-saving, but it ain't cheap.  The days of a doctor setting up a practice in his house with a little black bag are long over.  My daughter is applying to med schools, many of which are running $80,000 per year in tuition.  From that perspective, total health insurance costs of $15,000 per individual may just represent the cost of modern medicine keeping us alive longer and healthier than our parents were.
I am still confident of this;
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Wait for the Lord;
be strong and take heart and wait for the Lord. Ps 27
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LouSWPA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jul 2013 at 12:28pm
Bottom line is, putting a middle man in has NEVER reduced cost for the same quality or level of service. Obamacare cannot possibly lower costs for healthcare. Along with adding another source for "shrinkage" of funds, the government, we will now see multimillions added to the benefits that are putting absolutely NOTHING into the system! among those are illegal aliens.
Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid all should be great witness to the undoubted failure to Obamacare.......as if it wouldn't be obvious instantly at face value. Obamacare WILL raise healthcare costs for most of us, it has to, no sane person can believe otherwise, ya' cannot take on millions of more people who will not be adding to the support, but drawing from it, and expect to make up the difference by gouging the youth (which we are already doing with SS, the younger generation is really getting screwed big time, by our generation!!!!!  which, I believe, is the first time in American history that the next generation has actually been worse off than the preceding generation!!!!!)......and, in all likelihood, limit quality, accessibility, etc for all but the most affluent. There are examples all over the world of failures, yet we plod along believing this will be different
I am still confident of this;
I will see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living.
Wait for the Lord;
be strong and take heart and wait for the Lord. Ps 27
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Coke-in-MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jul 2013 at 5:30pm
YOU DON'T THINK YOUR WAY TO A NEW WAY OF LIVING --
YOU LIVE YOUR WAY TO A NEW WAY OF THINKING ..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jul 2013 at 10:14pm
who is paying of the tens of thousands of new IRs workers and " controllers" for the new program. Thats all over head and just a waste of taxpayers money right off the top.
like them all, but collect the little Bs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CTuckerNWIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jul 2013 at 8:33am
Originally posted by steve(ill) steve(ill) wrote:

who is paying of the tens of thousands of new IRs workers and " controllers" for the new program. Thats all over head and just a waste of taxpayers money right off the top.

No need for anybody to pay for them, just have some more money printed and it won't raise your taxes a bit.LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gordy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jul 2013 at 9:45am
Whose healthcare is dropping 50%? I do not believe anyone with their own healthcare insurance will see anything but increases, My own healthcare insurance increased 100% in 2013 because of impending Obamacare.
Maybe the 50% drop is for the ones who do not now have insurance?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian S(NY) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jul 2013 at 11:07am
Maybe Ol Bummer WILL reduce the premiums....that will just mean that a higher % will be demanded from the patient out of pocket expense. Aint nothing getting cheaper and hospitals will want their money.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote didgood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jul 2013 at 11:07am
It has to increase 300% before it can decrease 50%, kinda like pass it to see what's in it.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Coke-in-MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jul 2013 at 1:03pm

Barack Obama told us countless times that average health insurance premiums would decrease $2,000 under ObamaCare. Instead, average family premiums haveincreased nearly $2,000 since the bill passed.

But worry not, America. 13 million (4%) of us have received rebate checks from our insurance companies this year! The average amount? 100 bucks. Do the math. (Democrats have never been very good at math.)

As reported by CNSNews.com, one day after 22 House Democrats joined Republicans in voting to delay Obamacare’s individual mandate, Obama trotted out to tout the law’s benefits – as well as the “savings” already resulting from the “Affordable” Care Act.

“Last year, millions (13 out of 315, or 4%) of Americans opened letters from their insurance companies – but instead of the usual dread that comes from getting a bill – they were pleasantly surprised with a check,” Obama said. “In 2012, 13 million rebates went out, in all 50 states. Another 8.5 [million] rebates are being sent out this summer,averaging around 100 bucks each.”

Yippie, huh?

Under ObamaCare, insurance companies must spend at least 80 cents of every dollar paid in premiums on healthcare. Those that don’t meet that requirement must send their customers refunds.

Okay, now that we’re all thrilled about the 100-buck rebates, let’s get back to that increase in premiums business.

According to the Kaiser Family Foundation, healthcare premiums for the average family cost $15,745 in 2012 – an increase of $1,975 from the $13,770 they cost in 2010, the year President Obama signed the Affordable Care Act into law. Employees pick up some, but not all, of that cost.

Incidentally, Obama took the opportunity to thank “the Leader of the Democrats in the House of Representatives and somebody who worked harder that just about anybody to get the Affordable Care Act into law, Nancy (‘We have to pass the bill so that you can see what is in it’) Pelosi.”

While Obama continued to insist that premiums will, in fact, decrease under his beloved bill, “will” as in “will decrease” and “have” as in “have increased” say otherwise.

Time will tell. I’m still waiting for my 100 bucks.

YOU DON'T THINK YOUR WAY TO A NEW WAY OF LIVING --
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CTuckerNWIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jul 2013 at 1:22pm
I am sure my premiums will decrease because my wife has a letter from Aetna saying as of 01-01-14 her policy will no longer cover people from the age of 54-65. Since it took near a year to find this policy and get her covered, I guess she'll have to be fined by the IRS for not having health insurance.
 I wrote my representatives in WASH DC and one of em sent me an email want to know what I was concerned about, DAHH.
 I guess Bummer LIED when he said we could keep what we have if we liked it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Coke-in-MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jul 2013 at 4:06pm
YOU DON'T THINK YOUR WAY TO A NEW WAY OF LIVING --
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jul 2013 at 4:55pm
COke, when your $18 TRILLION in debt, he figures, "what the heck".. shoot for full ruination of the USA.
like them all, but collect the little Bs.
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