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no spark on C

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brando View Drop Down
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    Posted: 12 Jun 2013 at 6:03pm
I just rebuilt the motor and checked for spark today and nothing popped the cap off everything looks good and clean. the tractor ran last 8 years ago could the coil have gone bad? any help would be appreciated thanks in advance
1942 Allis C
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CTuckerNWIL View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CTuckerNWIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2013 at 6:52pm
Are you runnin a mag yet or changed to a distributor? I wouldn't think the coil would go bad just setting. I have seen mice chew up wires though when something sets around too long.
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Lena 1935 WC12xxx,1938 B2xx, 1950 WD, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF
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Ted in NE-OH View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ted in NE-OH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2013 at 8:39pm
Which ever you have mag or dist. Shine up the points surface.Wink
CA, WD, C, 3 Bs, G
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David Gantt N.C. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David Gantt N.C. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2013 at 9:36pm
like Ted said could be a glaze on the points
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brando View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brando Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2013 at 10:42pm
im near positive its a distributor I will get a pic tomorrow. I popped the cap off and took some super fine sand paper and cleaned the points and still nothing I followed the wire from the coil to the switch in the gage box and I didn't see and breaks
1942 Allis C
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Dick L View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dick L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2013 at 11:03pm
You need to take a check light or volt meter and start at the battery and check thru every item the wire goes thru all the way to the points with a distributer.

If it is a magneto you need to make sure it clicks every time the rotor crosses a wire terminal. Also on a magneto remove the wire on the side of the magneto while checking for spark. Look for bare wires under the coil.
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brando View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brando Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2013 at 9:32am
this is what I've got the red wire coming off of the coil goes all the way to the switch in the box it doesn't go through anything and there are no breaks in the wire. could timing just be off? or would I still get spark if that was the case?
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cosborn View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cosborn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2013 at 9:48am
You would still get spark. Joust not at the right time
1949 "C" vin #c71215, 1939 "B" Wide front, WD45 nf, WD45 wf, 1941 "C" work in progress. Wd wide front
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2013 at 9:55am
Best to just hot wire it to get it running. Run a wire from the positive side of the battery to the positive side of the coil. That'll get you spark.
"People are human beings, produced by the society in which they live. You encourage people by seeing the good in them." ~ Nelson Mandela
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brando View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brando Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2013 at 9:57am
thanks goose ill try that for now im just itching to get this thing running
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Allis B in PA View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Allis B in PA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2013 at 9:58am
Ran into this same problem with my B this year.  I had replaced points and condenser last year.  This year plowed a bit, parked it and it refused to spark later that day.  Followed everything with a volt meter and found a weak voltage at the points.  Replaced the condenser and it's been firing first crank every time.
 
Can't always trust new parts from big box store....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote john(MI) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2013 at 10:16am
You need a test light.  It connects to ground and it lights wherever you have voltage.  You can check all the way to the points.  A meter works but the light is quick and easy. 

Make sure your point are gapped correctly.

If you used emery paper to clean the points it can leave a residue that will not allow a spark.  You can clean it off with rubbing alcohol, suppose a little gas would work!  Make sure its real dry before trying to start it!!!!

Your cap or coil may have grown a carbon track to ground and that is taking the spark.  Easiest way to check that is to turn it over in a dark place or at night and see if you see the spark trailing off.

I have had the wire connection on the side of the distributer get gunked up.  Took it apart, cleaned it up and away it went.
2 D14's, WD45, 5020, Big 10, 612H.
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Gerald J. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerald J. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2013 at 10:28am
There have been reports of bad condensers from dealers too. I'm not a fan of sandpaper for points. The points are harder than the the abrasive so the sandpaper doesn't always achieve the required cleaning. The only reliable tool is a point file (NAPA sells them) of super hard steel because the points are a super hard tungsten alloy. An ordinary file won't cut them and will only cut butter after that encounter. Sometimes sand paper leaves abrasive particles behind stuck to the metal and they are insulating and make the situation worse keeping the points from closing.

Now is the time for test equipment to reduce the guessing. A test lamp that draws 1/10th to half an amp is a useful and simple tool. A dome lamp works for that with a couple wires attached.

First test is on the battery terminal of the coil. Is there voltage with the key on and does it stay as you crank the engine over? If not trace the wiring until you find the break and fix it, like the ignition switch or a bad connection.

Is there voltage on the distributor to coil primary wire when the points are open and not when the points are closed? If the light never goes out then the points are not making contact from an oxide layer and need the point file or replacement. if the light doesn't light, is the condenser shorted? check by unhooking it. Is the coil open? Check by unhooking the wire at the coil. Is that connecting wire shorted? Usually is located by continuing the test while moving the wire. Are the points opening and closing, e.g. set right or has the rubbing block rotted away? Is the distributor shaft bushing worn so the point rubbing block is pushing the shaft sideways?

As for timing, has the felt in the center of the distributor shaft under the rotor ever been oiled? does the rotor turn 15 or 20 degrees from its rest position and then snap back when released, e.g. does the centrifugal advance mechanism work properly?

There are just enough parts in the ignition system that are all crucial to its function that there is no ONE cause of failure. Only testing or shotgun replacement of all, including the wires and ignition switch have a chance at finding the problem each time.

Gerald J.
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brando View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brando Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2013 at 1:00pm
I tried what goose said and still no spark I should add that although I have a brand new battery I think the starter needs to be rebuilt it just doesn't have the guts to turn the motor over so ive been hand cranking it could this be a reason why I have no spark? also do all the plugs have to be grounded or is one ok? I removed them to make it easier to hand crank while im checking for spark. I pulled the cap off the distributor and cranked it looking for a spark between the points and I didn't notice anything but it is hard to crank it and look at the same time. I will try to get a check light today and see what I can find
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mrlogli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2013 at 1:37pm
Same problem on my CA, turned out to be a the wire from coil to dist.  The brass ends of the wire had heavy oxidation on them.  Cleaned them up can got spark.
1955 CA, SC, WFE; 2 bottom plow, SC 6ft blade, no 7 sickle bar mower, 302 baler
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brando View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brando Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2013 at 1:38pm
I cleaned them also and still got nothing
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rpropst Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2013 at 1:40pm
A little trick that saves a lot of cranking. Remove cap unplug coil wire from cap. Turn engine over until points are closed. Hold coil wire 1/4 inch from bare metal on engine. Use small screwdriver to open points. If things are right every time you open the points you should get a spark from the coil wire. To check points turn engine until points are open. Use small screwdriver touch between point arm and point base. If you get spark on the coil wire, the points are not making contact and should be filed and re adjusted. You must have power to the coil for this to work. A bad condenser will prevent spark also. Ignition switch may be bad.

Edited by rpropst - 13 Jun 2013 at 1:45pm
1950 snap coupler B 1948 WD 1951Ca 1952B 1952adjustable axel B
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brando View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brando Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2013 at 3:58pm
I tried the screw driver trick and nothing so I ordered a distributor rebuild kit hopefully that will get something happening
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CTuckerNWIL View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CTuckerNWIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2013 at 4:24pm
Originally posted by brando brando wrote:

I tried the screw driver trick and nothing so I ordered a distributor rebuild kit hopefully that will get something happening
That won't do ya any good if you don't have power to the coil, if your coil is bad, if your condenser is bad or if the wire into the distributor is grounded .
http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx,1938 B2xx, 1950 WD, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF
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brando View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brando Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2013 at 4:37pm
I don't know if the coil is bad or not but when I tried goose's trick the coil did start to get a little warm so im assuming it was getting power
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brando View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brando Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2013 at 6:26pm
ok so I got a light tester and I have power to the coil from the neg battery post to the neg side of the coil power coming from the positive side of the coil through the wire to the side of the distributor I have power when the points are open at the condenser when the points are closed no power I tried the screw driver test again and and one time I was able to get a good spark from the wire out of the top of the coil against the block sooo im thinking the points need to be cleaned??
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brando View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brando Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2013 at 8:34pm
I got a point file and we now have good spark thank you guys for all your help. now as far as timing goes what all do I have to do? which cylinder has to be tdc?
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