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Need Help, Flail or rubber rolls on disc bine

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wekracer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wekracer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Need Help, Flail or rubber rolls on disc bine
    Posted: 12 Jan 2013 at 10:02am
Dad and i priced some New Holland discbines yesterday.  We had been looking for a Rubber Roll machine because we do a lot of red clover and alfalfa.  We had always been told that a flail would knock the leaves off. 

The problem is that we found a great deal on a flail machine.  The salesman told us that the flail would not knock leaves off but that it would not crimp like the rollers and would take a little longer to dry out. 

I'm ok with taking longer to dry out but i can't have it knock leaves off.  Anyone have any experience or knowledge on this?

thanks in advance.
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Mrgoodwrench View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mrgoodwrench Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2013 at 10:35am
i've always heard it would knock them off...never used one though...maybe an adjustment to help not knock leaves?...we have 2 nh411 with crimping rolls
There are 3 ways to do job GOOD, FAST, CHEAP. YOU MAY CHOOSE 2. If its FAST & CHEAP it won't be GOOD, if it's GOOD & CHEAP it won't be FAST, and if its GOOD & FAST it won't be CHEAP!!!!
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Ky.Allis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ky.Allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2013 at 10:40am
Just need to use common sense here. I've worked as salesperson for NH and JD dealers and the flail conditioners are ok for grasses,but roller conditioners are by far the best for lugumes. If it's going to take longer for it to cure,you would be lots of money ahead to just buy a disc mower. I'm sure some people will not agree,but that's my opinion.
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GWS View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GWS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2013 at 12:10pm
Flail-type conditioners were developed in Europe to speed drying of grasses. They work by stripping off the waxy layer on the stem, allowing moisture to escape through the stem on the rye/rye crosses popular over there. Used on clover or alfalfa, they absolutely will strip leaves, lots of them, especially on clover (bigger leaves) costing you lots of protein. I'll be kind and say your salesman is misinformed.
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JohnCO View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnCO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2013 at 1:22pm
My Hesston 1365 has the flails and I was a bit apprehensive when I got it but it was available and the roller ones were all sold out in the area.  I grow both alfalfa and grass hay along with a mix.  I think the flails knock off a few more leaves then the rollers but not all that much.  I'm also convinced it takes longer for alfalfa to dry with the flail machine but the grass drys faster so it's kind of a wash.  The two things I like with the flail is that if you run a branch or fence post through, it won't plug up or, so far at least, break anything.  It is also impossible to plug with too much wet hay or an old bale.  I think if I were to do it again, I'd buy another flail machine.
One thing I am absolutely certain of is that I will never buy another cycle bar machine, disk mowers are just sooo much better. 


Edited by JohnCO - 12 Jan 2013 at 1:24pm
"If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer"
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Jordan(OH) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jordan(OH) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2013 at 11:10pm
I would go for rolls.  Salesmen like to say flails won't knock off leaves but use one and you will see them flying.  I have a New Idea 5212 with rubber rolls and have rented a JD flail when needed.
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Tim NH View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim NH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2013 at 7:16am
I have a Kuhn flail disc mower and I set conditioning on the light side and don't notice leaf loss. I make mostly haylage. You can get a lot of leaf loss tedding the hay at to high pto speed. Flail conditioning allows faster ground speed without plugging than rolls I was told. But make sure you get a mower that goes on 3point hitch arms and chains up to top link. It will turn way sharper, on the headlands turn.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ron(AB) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan 2013 at 11:43pm
We've run NH haybines for 40 + years. If you have alfalfa, (even if it is a mixed crop with grass, or maybe you want to make greenfeed) stick to the rubber rolls. We compared our neighbors JD diskbine with flail cond. to our rubber roll NH. We had him cut 50 acres of Alf/Brome. The flail beats the heck out of the crop. It doesn't weather a rain on the swath as well either. One other disadvantage with the flail, - if you have pocket gophers or moles, with their dirt piles getting into the hay - you will get more dirt mixed into the hay with a flail. The whole swath will get saturated with dirt. It literally gets sprayed into the swath!

We've have the NH 13 foot model and use our 7050 to run it. Diskbines take a lot of power. They run and hum very fast. The first thing to do is build a mesh window protector for your rear window and preferably one that extends over the rear lights. The first year I put a rock to the mesh and it sounded like a banjo string ring! Every one of my neighbors has either broke a window or a light. They're to lazy to get something made to protect their rear window. And that was just a small gravel sized rock.
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Ky.Allis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ky.Allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 2013 at 7:16am
Ron--you are right about protection from flying objects. In around 2006,I was working for local JD dealer and I sold an older farmer a new 6420 cab tractor and new JD disc MoCo. Within 1 hour of use a blade came off and came thru back glass (missed his head by only inches). The blade then went thru windshield and landed on the tractor's hood. Both windows were shattered and the farmer was dazzled wondering what the hell happened. JD service/warranty guys determined the blade must have been faulty because the bolt hole broke out of it. They also determined by gouge marks on rear of machine that the blade exited to the rear of machine and was deflected forward to tractor. Warranty paid for everything and the farmer built proctetive screens made of heavy expanded metal for rear and right side cab windows. He did a nice job making them removable by mounting in snug fitting stake pockets.
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