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6000 series engine orgins?

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ky wonder View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ky wonder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 6000 series engine orgins?
    Posted: 05 Jan 2013 at 3:52pm
well i am reading one of my new gifts from christmas, the ultimate guide to tractors, by Jim Glastonury, it is full of nice pictures some old, some current of the worlds tractor companies
and their offerings.
 
 the Allis chalmers section startrs at page 32 and ends on page 43
 
this book claims that the 6000 series are fiat powered, though built in West Allis, i know that  the word france in cast into the side of my 6060 block,
 
so my question is where  the 433 motors fiat or Allis designed ?
 
and where were they cast ? overseas and assembled in west allis?
 
I thought some of the guys on here, might have been working there at the time, and that maybe they  could share a little more light on the subject


Edited by ky wonder - 05 Jan 2013 at 3:54pm
i like old tractors of all colors
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Longmeadow Farm View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Longmeadow Farm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2013 at 4:18pm
According to what I've read, the 6000 series is a Fiat from the transmission back..which includes the 3Pt arrangement. The front wheel assist axels are Fiat as well.  The 2wd front axle and engine are of Allis design. The 200cu in engine is 2/3 the size of the 301 cu in 6 cylinder and (200 engine) is formerly an Allis Chalmers  combine engine.  Allis probably would have been better served if a Fiat engine was used..at least at first, considering the crankshaft thrust bearing issue, which cost them plenty. I own and still use a 6080 in my farming operations. Nice tractor, rather trouble free. 
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DSeries4 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DSeries4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2013 at 9:54am
As mentioned above, the tractor has plenty of Fiat components, but the engine is all allis.  Has the AC identification tag on it from Harvey Ill.  Mine has France cast in the block was well.  I suspect the block was cast in France, but assembled in the US.  This engine was first used in the F2 and K2 diesel combines in 1978, but might have been used in some of the smaller dozers before (not totally sure).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CaseyCreek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2013 at 9:55am
When you say 6000 series, are you referring only to the 6080?  There was also the 6140, of which only a few seem to have been made.  They had three-cylinder Japanese engines.  Good tractors, but hard to find parts for nowadays.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Longmeadow Farm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2013 at 10:32am
6060, 6070 and 6080 were the 60xx series and predominately made by Fiat
5015, 5020,5030 & 6140 were classified as 5000 series and built by Toyosha of Japan.  I looked at a used 6140 a few years back to be used as a chore tractor..feeding, cleaning etc. My AGCO Dealer dissuaded me from the purchase due to parts availability, but then you have to know my AGCO dealer.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CaseyCreek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2013 at 11:23am
Originally posted by Longmeadow Farm Longmeadow Farm wrote:

6060, 6070 and 6080 were the 60xx series and predominately made by Fiat
5015, 5020,5030 & 6140 were classified as 5000 series and built by Toyosha of Japan.  I looked at a used 6140 a few years back to be used as a chore tractor..feeding, cleaning etc. My AGCO Dealer dissuaded me from the purchase due to parts availability, but then you have to know my AGCO dealer.  


Thanks for the information.  I wish someone had talked my brother out of buying his 6140.  He really liked the tractor.  Put new rubber all the way around last year, then blew out the head gasket and did some valve damage.  It sat for months.


Edited by CaseyCreek - 06 Jan 2013 at 11:23am
D17 Series III,D17 Series IV, 185
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Brian Ahart View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian Ahart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2013 at 7:47pm
Yes, parts availability is the main drawback with the 6040 (Renault - France) and 6140 (Hinomoto/Toyosha - Japan).  Having said that, these were reliable and efficient tractors in their day.  The 5015-5020-5030 (and Deutz-Allis 5215-5220-5230) had MF counterparts which helps parts availability.  The 6140 didn't.  At some point I would like to find a nice original 6140 to go with my 6040.  I'm kind of partial to the little critters.
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teller View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote teller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Dec 2013 at 9:02pm
Do you happen to know where he got the parts? I have been searching and can't find a head gasket to save my life.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DougG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Dec 2013 at 2:40am
Cant you get a head gasket custom made?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ALHO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Dec 2013 at 7:01am
I bought a 6080 with front wheel ast. factory cab in 1987 three years old it had the thrush bearing on it with 540 and 1000 pto sold it ten years back this year my son bought a 1985 6080 with 6000 plus hours on it and it don't have the thrush bearing on it and it only has 540 p.t.o.it has over 6000 hours on it and the cluch has been replaced it was a one owner tractor
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Longmeadow Farm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Dec 2013 at 7:28am
Allis Chalmers introduced a reinforced block with a beefier crankshaft thrust bearing in late '82 ...I think...I'm too lazy to look it up. As such, the later 6000 series didn't have the external helper to hold the crank back from eating its way through the front of the block. All 6080 tractors had the dual 540/1000 PTO. There is no "lever" to change..just replace the 540 shaft with the 1000 shaft. The 1000 shaft allows a small rod  to engage the different gear set.  I sometimes change to 1000 PTO and then add a 540 adaptor to run my bush hog in "economy" PTO mode at around 1200 engine RPMs for pasture clipping. I turned my 6080 pump to the low side and at 1200 rpm it just sips fuel.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ILGLEANER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Dec 2013 at 11:18am
Originally posted by DSeries4 DSeries4 wrote:


As mentioned above, the tractor has plenty of Fiat components, but the engine is all allis.  Has the AC identification tag on it from Harvey Ill.  Mine has France cast in the block was well.  I suspect the block was cast in France, but assembled in the US.  This engine was first used in the F2 and K2 diesel combines in 1978, but might have been used in some of the smaller dozers before (not totally sure).

The HD4 I have has that engine. As well as some backhoes. The engine was around way before the 6080 and combines. I really like that engine.
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ORANGE is gone and so am I!!!!!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CaseyCreek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Dec 2013 at 1:47pm
Originally posted by teller teller wrote:

Do you happen to know where he got the parts? I have been searching and can't find a head gasket to save my life.


If you are referring to the 6140, then yes.  He got the head gasket and several other parts at Sandy Lake Implement.
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Michael (WI) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Michael (WI) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 2014 at 1:29pm
I am starting to wonder if the engine was assembled in Europe as well. I just had to pull the starter off mine a couple of weeks ago on a nice cold day in an unheated shed. As a side note I would like to know who tucked the third bolt between the starter and block where it is almost impossible to get at. Anyway I was shocked to read LUCAS (Prince of Darkness)on the starter when I had it pulled out. I wonder if the other applications like combines still had Lucas starters?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 2014 at 4:34pm
Engine was assembled in Harvey, Illinois....a suburb oif Chicago. It was built in the same factory that all the 301's and 426's were built. Blocks and heads were cast overseas, but they were for the 301 and 426's too. Lucas starters have been used on some A-C tractors since the 200 came out in 1972. Combines always had DelcoRemy or big Nippendenso starters to my reckalection.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tbran Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 2014 at 7:33pm
MY 2 CENTS -  the earliest version of the 433 started out as the 2200 both in gas and diesel in the 60's. The 2200 201 ci was not equipped with the counter balancer and had a solid non injector copper sleeved head.  The 2200 was about 40 hp and was used in the 500 forklifts and HD4 dozer and the late I600 I think.
The 433 was turbo'd and was selected over the direct inj 262 engine as it was more fuel efficient and longer lived than the 262. (I actually put my hands on a direct injection 262 head at Harvey)   It also share common parts with the 301.
The 433 was a really good engine and was used in many applications - Barko loaders were one outside Ag. The problem on the crank occurred AFTER the 6080 met with good sales success (the 6000 series once climbed to 20% market share in N America )   The early units did not crank well due to a lower compression.
The 6080 also used a dual luk clutch that had to have the pto and trans clutch pedals depressed.  This forward pressure during prolonged cranking time resulted in almost dry starts as to crank lube.  The final solution was to increase the CRANK thrust area and MAIN thrust bearing surface to about double the size of contact.
All the blocks could accept the wider area thrust by filing off the wire edge off the blocks center saddle.  Allis sourced castings from Germany, Japan, and France.
As stated the tractor from the engine back was Fiat.  In fact there was an Allis designed 5 speed powershift ready for installation but was nixed by the German occupation .  The tranny was to be electrical as to shifting.  I have not been able to find what became of the trans.  Fiat was to build it and had all the plans.
That would have been a neat unit on 6000's plus a 6090 at 95 hp ( fwa only) with a 3 range 5 speed powershift.  
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eldon (WA) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 2014 at 8:31pm
Yeah I'm not too fond of the gear selection and no pd on my 6080......a powershift would have been nice.
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