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185 oil level

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Arbela945 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 25 Nov 2012 at 9:29am
Good morning. Would a 180 and a 185 have the same engine dipstick? I have both and know a 185 holds one more quart. The dipstick on the 185 is exactly the same as on the 180. Makes it read over full. This has me stumped. Only thing I can think of is the first owner lost the original and put a 180 stick back in. Need a 185 part # I guess......I don't know. Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2012 at 12:53pm
If the 180 and 185 have the same oil pan shape (get down on your knees to see this) they hold the same amount of oil. A very late model 185 has a deeper oil pan and should hold 3 more quarts of oil over an older 180 or 185 with the shallow oil pan. Dipsticks?? there was more than one style used over the years.....The key is 10 to 11 quarts of oil on an old pan and about 14 quarts with the late model pan.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Arbela945 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2012 at 1:35pm
Thanks for your thoughts. This 185 has the older pan. Same part# stamped on it as the 180 pan. That's why I'm perplexed.   Can't think allis didn't change markings when they increased capacity. Need to go look at some other 185s in the neighborhood i suppose. Thanks again and if I unravel this thing i will let you know.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mrgoodwrench Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2012 at 1:39pm
agco parts lists 2 different dipsticks depending on serial number...also i doubt that they raised the oil level in the block the "extra" oil should be below the full line in the stick due to a deeper pan  or else you will be sloshing around alot of oil with the crank
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Arbela945 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2012 at 7:15pm
This thing is getting pretty involved. Talked to more than several parts guys. Depending on engine serial #, there are different part #s. I'm still working on it. I just can't think this tractor has the right setup. I'm going to look at pan #s next....to see if maybe it's been swapped out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CTuckerNWIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2012 at 8:05pm
Originally posted by Arbela945 Arbela945 wrote:

This thing is getting pretty involved. Talked to more than several parts guys. Depending on engine serial #, there are different part #s. I'm still working on it. I just can't think this tractor has the right setup. I'm going to look at pan #s next....to see if maybe it's been swapped out.

Sounds to me like you are WAY over thinking this. If the blocks are the same, the oil level would need to be the same in relation to a given point on the block. It doesn't matter how deep the pan is or how long the dipstick is , if the oil is at that level.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Arbela945 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2012 at 7:44am
Ive just never had a machine that read over when i got done changing the oil.  Shop book calls for 11 qts and the stick says ive got 12 in it.  Thats the mystery.  Ive ran it that way since Ive had it.  I understand what you are saying and thanks.  I just kinda want to trust what the stick measures.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote injpumpEd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2012 at 10:15am
Crank driven oil pump displacing a little more volume in the pan than a cam driven pump would? That is the reason for the pan change Dr speaks of right?
210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JC(WI) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2012 at 10:19am
Maybe the dipstick coller got jammed up farther,
 or the block fitting got jammed in deeper
 or the oil drains out of the filter...
 or a quart of old sludge is in the bottom of the pan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Arbela945 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2012 at 11:56am
this has been kinda fun to research and dont want to wear anyone out but the 180 pan (older style) number and dipstick number are identical to what this 185 has.  the newer style pans were put on the 185s  after serial 12800.  my 185 is 17370.  old style pan should be the newer style pan maybe the reason the stick isnt reading proper.  just a thought.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Redwood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2012 at 12:31pm
Reading through I'm not sure I follow "one more quart".  One more quart then then 180 or one more quart then you put in?  How do you know it absolutley holds one more quart.  If you have been filling the 185 before and you know from history that is one thing but another if it is the first change for you. 
If it is off to what it should be a higher displacement is about the only answer aside for it is not suppose to hold one more quart.  Assuming from the post you have verified at this point it is the correct dipstick.
I would be for the higher displacement theory  sludge or mechanical.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JC(WI) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2012 at 12:31pm
Here is the odd deal, I ran the 185 serial numbers in a book and the number built goes as thus;
1970 -  951
1971 -  983
1972 -  828
1973 - 1198
1974 - 1581
1975 - 1750
1976 - 1717
1977 - 1628
1978 - 1529
1979 - 1512
1980 -  967
1981 - Serial number started at 15648 and your serial number is 17370 .. having 1722 tractors in-between...
 So what was the very last serial number of the 185 that rolled off the assembly line? ... for that fact, does anyone have the very last final serial numbers of the D series and the hundred series tractors off the line?
 
 What I don't understand out of wendals book is the D-17 started at 4300, 170 started at 2721 and 180 started at 2682 and the 220 started at 1938,  While most of the rest started at SN 1001  till the 5020,5030, 5040, 5050 came along.


Edited by JC(WI) - 27 Nov 2012 at 12:32pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JC(WI) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2012 at 12:42pm
If this thing has a 180 oil pan and a 180 dipstick, then the only factor that could change the reading is your adding to much oil by one quart.
" I have both and know a 185 holds one more quart. " So maybe you need to rethink what Your 185 actually holds.
  Maybe the engine has been swapped out for an earlier engine...
 Or A-C were cleaning up the last of the parts as it headed out the door seeing how it appears to be one of the last ones built.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Arbela945 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2012 at 2:14pm
Im answering redwood.......had this 185 for 3 years.  always change the oil in the fall.  Have the original shop book and always put in 11 quarts and new filter. Dipstick is always above full when Im done.  Just trying to figure out why. Tractor # is 1737.  Engine # is 42682.  Still just trying to figure it out.  Im sure it been run that way since 1971.  just fun to wonder what happened. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JC(WI) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2012 at 2:25pm
 OK, You are still dealing with the origional oil pan and dipstick and the correct level would be the same as the 180 to be on the marks.  
 Maybe your book is for the latter 185 for number of quarts.... Just because it came with the tractor doesn't mean its the correct one...
 Bought a used 1965 190XT and from the A-C dealer, When delivered, In the toolbox was a 200 book. LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Redwood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2012 at 2:44pm
That clears is up Smile
 
After three years time line that would eliminates the likelyhood you've missed a dirty running engine thus eliminating the chance of it being build up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Arbela945 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2012 at 2:49pm
Yeah, thanks jc.  You could be correct.  I will figure it out.  There are a few 185s around here.  Thats the way to go about it I think.  Hard to back 40 years and try to pinpoint what might have gone on.  Hell, running on the hills we have here in N.E. MO Id probably rather have a little over anyway.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Arbela945 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2012 at 2:52pm
and thanks redwood.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hudsonator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2012 at 7:40pm
Gee, my 185 dipstick says "Full when running" directly on the stick itself.
 
When its shut off, it looks a quart high.  "When running", its dead on the "Full" mark.
 
Go figure.
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WD's just do it better.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Arbela945 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2012 at 7:37am
But turn it around.  on the other side is the full stopped mark.  Its a tick above the full running mark on the opposite side of the dipstick.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Arbela945 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 2012 at 8:42am
When you check oil on a cold 185, flip the dipstick and read the underside.  the full mark on  the cold read is above the full mark on the running read.  Thats what I had been doing all along.   Not over full by much mind you, but enough that I wondered about it.  Thanks for the help.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mtanut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 2012 at 8:47am
When I changed the oil in my 185 I had to put 12 quarts in it to get it full. No idea of the serial number, tractor got hit with a car and there is a 180 torque tube on it, any way to take casting numbers to find the year?
I have a 185 Allis, 6060 Allis, SMTA ferg 35, ferg 20 (paps first tractor, Allis B (wife's) Gleaner A2, John Deere 240 skid loader and a bunch of the usual farm stuff.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Arbela945 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 2012 at 9:34am
The tractor serial number will tell you that.  left side stamped on the torque housing.   It will have 185xxxx.  if you need help, let me know, i have a list of year to year serial #s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mtanut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 2012 at 2:16pm
Originally posted by Arbela945 Arbela945 wrote:

The tractor serial number will tell you that.  left side stamped on the torque housing.   It will have 185xxxx.  if you need help, let me know, i have a list of year to year serial #s.


Well that would be grand if I had the original torque tube. After it was repaired from the wreck the serial number wasn't recorded from the original, and they got a used one from a 180. This was all done 5-6 years before I got the tractor.
I have a 185 Allis, 6060 Allis, SMTA ferg 35, ferg 20 (paps first tractor, Allis B (wife's) Gleaner A2, John Deere 240 skid loader and a bunch of the usual farm stuff.
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