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rupp_centaur 
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Joined: 24 Oct 2009
Location: Birchwood, WI
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 Topic: WD aux outlet hydraulic help
Posted: 02 Jan 2012 at 4:06pm |
Hey all you great allis people! I am getting a new hay rake but will need more than one hydraulic outlet on the back of the old WD diesel I use to rake hay with here in WI. Has anyone evey added an aux hydraulic spool, valving setup on the back of a WD? Can anyone help with some ideas on how too? Thanks! Don
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stray
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Posted: 02 Jan 2012 at 5:44pm |
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Don, I could be wrong but I think to add hyd remote to the WD you will have to put a complete aux hyd system on it.
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1969 190XT series 3
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Bill_MN
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Posted: 02 Jan 2012 at 9:51pm |
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allis used a high pressure low volume hydraulic system with single acting cylinders, hence the single factory outlet. if you use an implement with a standard high volume double acting cylinder you will need to add aux hydraulics with a pump running off the engine or belt pulley drive, and a separate fluid tank, with whatever control valves and outlets you want
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1951 WD #78283, 1918 Case 28x50 Thresher #76738, Case Centennial B 2x16 Plow
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MACK
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Posted: 02 Jan 2012 at 10:13pm |
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You can add a remote valve to the pump you have now but it will be slow. Most remote valves have a pressure relief valve in them and you can run low pressure cylinder. Will most likely have to add a oil tank on side of frame to operate a big cylinder. MACK
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Bill_MN
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Posted: 02 Jan 2012 at 10:22pm |
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if it's a double acting cylinder how would the return line work with the factory pump? it's not a closed-loop system
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1951 WD #78283, 1918 Case 28x50 Thresher #76738, Case Centennial B 2x16 Plow
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Chalmersbob
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Posted: 02 Jan 2012 at 11:07pm |
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You would need to run a return line from the spool valve to a reserve tank that is coupled to the WD reservoir. Bob
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CTuckerNWIL
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Posted: 03 Jan 2012 at 7:33am |
 rupp_centaur wrote:
Hey all you great allis people! I am getting a new hay rake but will need more than one hydraulic outlet on the back of the old WD diesel I use to rake hay with here in WI. Has anyone evey added an aux hydraulic spool, valving setup on the back of a WD? Can anyone help with some ideas on how too? Thanks! Don |
It seems everybody gets stuck in their own minds on what you can't do before you say what you want to do. Do you want to be able to run 2 different cylinders separate of each other? Will they be one way cylinders? What kind of work will the cylinders be doing, splitting wood or lifting an implement. I can run 5 different cylinders with my 45 right now by swinging a divertor valve. Of course 2 cylinders run the lift arms and 2 run the loader. You could very easily run 2 different one way cylinders off the back of the WD but if they might need to used at the same time, you will probably need 2 separate valves. Maybe you could elaborate on what you want to do.
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MACK
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Posted: 03 Jan 2012 at 8:10am |
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A remote valve has to have a return line that don't go back to pump, it goes back to tank. No different than any other 2 way system. MACK
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CTuckerNWIL
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Posted: 03 Jan 2012 at 8:19am |
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Mack, you are stuck in that 2 way cylinder thinking. He doesn't say he wants a remote valve, he wants to run more than one cylinder. You can easily put a divertor valve in line with the original hydraulic valve and run any number of one way cylinders from the original valve by switching the divertor from one outlet to the other. No "remote " valve and no return line. Also if the proper cylinders are used there is no need of an added reservoir.
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Eldon (WA)
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Posted: 03 Jan 2012 at 11:04am |
Here are a couple of pictures of the diverter valve on my D14. One outlet controls the front loader (hose), other controls the lift arm (pipe). If you want to run double acting cylinders this setup won't work without a couple more valves and a return line. If that is the case, I think I would go with an add-on low pressure pump and resevoir. 
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ALLIS EXPRESS!
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Bolivar Boy
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Posted: 03 Jan 2012 at 11:05am |
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wow. a rake with a hydraulic lift. tells you how out of it i am. i'm guessing this is a swatter rake with wings up for transport mode. even if he installed 2 one way ac cylinders on this puppy he's still gonna need 2 outlets. the only hydraulics i need on my rake is for the jack when the tires goes flat....... amish neighbor loves that stuff !
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Bolivar Boy
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Posted: 03 Jan 2012 at 11:10am |
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eldon's picture just killed my little theory.........
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rupp_centaur
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Posted: 03 Jan 2012 at 6:16pm |
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Hey Guys! Thanks for the ideas but don't start an argument over it:) The rake I have the the new one have the single acting type, power up/ out and gravity down. I didn't think about the D-15 style diverter. Didn't D-15 have an option from new to have muliple spool controls? I remember seeing this in the old parts books.
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stray
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Posted: 03 Jan 2012 at 6:33pm |
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It's been a long time since I've been around a WD, but why will you need a seperate resevoir? Is there not a big enough plug on the bottom of the trans, for a suction hose? Then you just need to add to the fill and port the return in there.
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1969 190XT series 3
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SteveC(NS)
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Posted: 04 Jan 2012 at 3:16pm |
I have just added a diverter valve to my CA. when I select the front cyl. the original valve controls it, full back for lift, mid point(dtent) for hold and full forward for lower. The rear rams are locked. When I select the rear rams the front cyl. is locked (in whatever position I left it) and the rear rams function as always with the original valve. If a double acting cyl is required it needs it's own valve after the diverter and a return which could go to one of the plug holes under the transmission/diff. The original valve would have to be full back (lift) position while the new valve and cyl. are in use. Stray, that hose to the drain port of the trany/diff wouldn't be a "suction" hose just a return hose as no pressure would be involved.
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stray
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Posted: 04 Jan 2012 at 7:48pm |
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Yes if you are using the original pump and hyd. valves (low volume high pressure) pressuring the add on valve you would only have one new hose going to the trans. But I was talking about adding a new high volume / low pressure system.
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1969 190XT series 3
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CTuckerNWIL
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Posted: 04 Jan 2012 at 8:16pm |
stray wrote:
Yes if you are using the original pump and hyd. valves (low volume high pressure) pressuring the add on valve you would only have one new hose going to the trans. But I was talking about adding a new high volume / low pressure system. |
??? In the WD and 45 the transmission fluid doesn't come in contact with the hydraulic fluid. If you add a complete hydraulic system, you could use the tranny for a sump.
Edited by CTuckerNWIL - 04 Jan 2012 at 8:17pm
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1946WP
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Posted: 04 Jan 2012 at 8:43pm |
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IF YOUR TALKING ABOUT RUNNING A V RAKE OFF A WD, I JUST ADDED AN EXTRA 2 WAY CONTROL VALVE WITH THE RETURN T'D INTO THE HYD. FILL TUBE . IT WORKS JUST FINE ON MINE . MAYBE A LITTLE SLOWER, BUT WORKS FINE.
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Bill_MN
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Posted: 04 Jan 2012 at 10:45pm |
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yes this talk of running hoses into the tranny will only serve to pump fluid into the tranny until it's blowing out the dipstick! the hydraulics do have a separate reservoir and there is no possible way oil could circulate in that sort of system, unless you are assuming somehow the return line will somehow have enough suction to draw the oil back out, which I just don't see happening. this is an interesting discussion, don't think the unique allis hydraulics get talked about enough...or maybe thats a good thing??
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1951 WD #78283, 1918 Case 28x50 Thresher #76738, Case Centennial B 2x16 Plow
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stray
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Posted: 05 Jan 2012 at 7:41am |
Bill_MN wrote:
yes this talk of running hoses into the tranny will only serve to pump fluid into the tranny until it's blowing out the dipstick! the hydraulics do have a separate reservoir and there is no possible way oil could circulate in that sort of system, unless you are assuming somehow the return line will somehow have enough suction to draw the oil back out, which I just don't see happening. this is an interesting discussion, don't think the unique allis hydraulics get talked about enough...or maybe thats a good thing??
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I made a mistake in saying the return oil when using the original hyd system could be returned to trans, I should have said back in where the hyd fluid goes. Like I said it has been a long time since I've been around a WD to the point to remember what sump does what. Now with that said, I was stating if you run a differant hydruilic system you don't need to add a external tank. As long as the pump isn't very big you can attach the suction line to the trans drain and run to the add on pump and then to the add on valve and then back to the fill port on the trans, you will be taking out oil as fast as you will be putting it in because it is all one hyd system. Now I haven't done this to a WD but I have to a lot of other tractors of all brands and it hasn't failed to work yet. There may also be better ports than the drain and the fill on the WD, but I know that it will have those two.
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1969 190XT series 3
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Philipx
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Posted: 04 Sep 2018 at 10:02pm |
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I also have a similar hydraulic problem with an allis loader connected to my wd which is a trip bucket system ,there are flanges close to the bucket and flanges on the bucket to fit two rams but this won't work with single acting rams as it will dump but not pick up my inner lift rams are also single so I think my problem is similar and reading some answers on this post thought I could post here,but if I am wrong apologies in advance, but how can I make the bucket lift with single rams and dump on gravity pressure?
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Own a wd using as a working tractor not restored but converted to 12volt 3 wire
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john(MI)
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Posted: 04 Sep 2018 at 10:34pm |
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I think this pressure/volume issue is a non issue. I was running a Long backhoe on my D14 and it operated at an acceptable speed for me. I did add a return line to the rear for two way operation.
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D14, D17, 5020, 612H, CASE 446
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rustyorange45
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Posted: 05 Sep 2018 at 8:33am |
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I have a Vermeer wheel rake that I use with my WD45. I put a three way hydraulic valve on my remote outlet with two hydraulic outlets. My loader is hooked to one outlet. I can raise it up and then valve it off. The rake is hooked the other outlet. I used the double acting cylinder that came with rake. I hooked the hose to the bottom port and put a vent in the top port, power up gravity down.
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1953 WD45 WF/Model 90 Loader, Oxnard Rear Blade, 80R Mower, Model 209 Disc, WD Rear Mounted Scoop, Model 184 & 160 Rotary Mowers, 1952 CA NF/L306CA mower, 1953 CA WF/Model 8 Loader.
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CTuckerNWIL
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Posted: 05 Sep 2018 at 2:26pm |
Philipx wrote:
I also have a similar hydraulic problem with an allis loader connected to my wd which is a trip bucket system ,there are flanges close to the bucket and flanges on the bucket to fit two rams but this won't work with single acting rams as it will dump but not pick up my inner lift rams are also single so I think my problem is similar and reading some answers on this post thought I could post here,but if I am wrong apologies in advance, but how can I make the bucket lift with single rams and dump on gravity pressure? |
Don't know how well it would work, but you can use a 2 way cylinder. Just put the hose to the side that makes the bucket tip up, and vent the other side of the cylinder. Best use a cintered vent to keep crap out of the cylinder, or you can do like I did for the planter. I just drained the hose that doesn't get used and let the air inside compress when the cylinder extends. Just make sure the cylinder is extended and drained, then put the coupling back on it and hang it out of the way.
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