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AC7060IL 
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 Topic: Conv & Synthetic Blend recipe
Posted: 25 Mar 2024 at 12:09pm |
We have an older Toyota Sienna van. It's original 1mzfe v6 just logged 310,000 miles. I do all of its servicing which includes engine oil changes. I noticed when I tried using a full synthetic 5w-30, a noticeable "rod knock" was heard for about 1-2 seconds at every start up. So I visited with other mechanics about it. Apparently, full synthetic oil doesn't exhibit a lengthy bearing "film" or coating as conventional oils. It was explained to me that Synthetic blend is a combination of conventional & full synthetic oils. However the wording "blend" could mean whatever percentages the manufacturer desired. There is no standard blend formulas? They also agreed that the van's higher mileage rod bearing / piston ring wear seems within normal range if its using 1.5 quart per 5000 mile Full synthetic intervals. But I didn't care to hear each start up's rod knock. So to minimize rod knock during start up, I've tried different engine oil options. Our local farm/fleet conventional 5W-30 stopped the start-up rod knock & used about 1.5 qts /5000 mile. Both the High Mileage/ All Mileage synthetic blend 5w-30 lowered usage to 1 qt/ 5000 miles, but still had maybe 1 sec of rod knock at start-ups. So my current recipe consist of 1 quart conventional 5w-30 & 4 quarts of high mileage synthetic blend 5w-30 at change interval. That combination stopped all start up rod knock & usage lowered to 1 qt / 6000 miles. And it seems to be improving? Currently, 4600 miles on 2/3 qt used.
Just wondering,,, What vehicle engine oil recipes do other forum members use?
Edited by AC7060IL - 25 Mar 2024 at 12:11pm
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DanWi
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Posted: 25 Mar 2024 at 1:18pm |
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In my 1999 Chevy 7.4 vortec with 150,000 miles I have started putting a quart of Lucas oil treatment in at oil changes with recommended synthetic blend oil. It calls for 5w30. I may go to 10w30 or 15w40 like I use in tractors.
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plummerscarin
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Posted: 25 Mar 2024 at 1:41pm |
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1989 Chevy 350 TBI. 250,000 miles. Conventional 10w/40. No knock
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Lars(wi)
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Posted: 25 Mar 2024 at 3:53pm |
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The advantage of syn motor oils is the cold starts, syn oils should leave a slight film of oil on surfaces, better than conventional oils. Have you tried other brands of full syn oils? Same results?
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I tried to follow the science, but it was not there. I then followed the money, and that’s where I found the science.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 25 Mar 2024 at 5:43pm |
AC... if you had good luck fot 300K miles with the DYNO oil... why the change to synthetic ?
That being said... I buy my oil at Wal Mart.. Use to use Havoline 10w30 and they stopped selling it 15 years ago... So i switched to Motocraft and 2 years ago they stopped selling that... Now they sell 6-7 different brands and almost all are Synthetic or Blend... I switched to the House TECH brand of Synthetic 5w30 for the F150 and 5w20 the Ford FLEX......
Edited by steve(ill) - 25 Mar 2024 at 5:47pm
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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KJCHRIS
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Posted: 25 Mar 2024 at 6:06pm |
I'd Try your previous oil again at next service to see if noise stays or goes!! I've run 5W-30 synthetic blend in 2 vehicles since new. The 2001 has 330,000+ and 2010 has 140,000+ miles, both are Ford 5.4 V8's, 5,000 mile oil & filter changes no issues with leaks or noises.
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AC 200, CAH, AC185D bareback, AC 180D bareback, D17 III, WF. D17 Blackbar grill, NF. D15 SFW. Case 1175 CAH, Bobcat 543B,
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AC7060IL
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Posted: 25 Mar 2024 at 8:09pm |
 steve(ill) wrote:
AC... if you had good luck fot 300K miles with the DYNO oil... why the change to synthetic ?
[DIV |
Yeah~ right? Our local Walmart(6mile drive)quit carrying Super-Tech conv 5w-30. And,,, about that same time, many other oil suppliers quit carrying conv too. Anyway Rural king 30 miles away still carries conv though( Providence brand). But providence burns too quickly. Some background about this “second Sienna 310,000 van.” Our first Sienna that I had serviced since 98k miles had 246k when my Wife had a head on collision with some young girl on her phone that abruptly turned in front of wife in 30mph town street. Everyone was fine, but insurance totaled 1st sienna. So I located a same year/model 2nd Sienna to replace it. 2nd Sienna had 212k when we purchased it from a retired couple that kept some (timing belt/h2o pump) service good except 1mzfe’s pcv valve had clogged. :( So during my initial servicing it, engine valve cover gasket needed servicing, power steer pump kit, exhaust leaks, etc,, I found engine’s valve covers coated with oil sludge. I scrapped out sludge & wanted an oil treatment that would remove sludge without thinning oil~ no diesel, no sea foam, no ATF, etc. To my findings, full synthetic oil has ability to remove sludge if short intervals(5k miles), longer oil filter to contain sludge, & remove oil pan to clean oil pump screen of coffee grounds. It worked great for about 60,000 miles then I started noticing start-up rod knock. Coffee grounds cleared up at about 20,000 miles(4 changes later. Anyway thats how / when the recipes began.
Edited by AC7060IL - 26 Mar 2024 at 9:54am
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tadams(OH)
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Posted: 26 Mar 2024 at 2:27pm |
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I have always had Ford change my oil every 5,000 miles, they use the blend oil. Now on our new 2024 Escape it says the dash will tell you when to change your oil, so I am going to see how many miles I go tilll it says it time.
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Lars(wi)
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Posted: 26 Mar 2024 at 2:35pm |
tadams(OH) wrote:
I have always had Ford change my oil every 5,000 miles, they use the blend oil. Now on our new 2024 Escape it says the dash will tell you when to change your oil, so I am going to see how many miles I go tilll it says it time. |
The wife’s 2009 Explorer had the dash display that indicates ‘oil change needed’, usually around 8,000-9,000 miles when using full synthetic. Previous auto she had was a Chevy Impala that also would trigger the oil change at 9,000 +/- miles.
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I tried to follow the science, but it was not there. I then followed the money, and that’s where I found the science.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 26 Mar 2024 at 3:39pm |
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EXTENDED oil changes are pushed by the Factory to show lower maintenance cost... NOT a good idea if you have Variable Cam Timing or a Turbo.... If you got a very basic old 4 -6 or V8.. might be OK to go 8-9000 miles... DONT do that on VCT or Turbo engine.
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NEVER green
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Posted: 27 Mar 2024 at 9:36am |
Lucas oil claims they eliminate "dry starts" this might be a good opportunity to see if the claim holds up??
My brother worked at a small engine shop and he said he could tell if the customers used Lucas because the parts were so slippery to hold on, he verified it with each customer.
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2-8050 1-7080 6080 D-19 modelE & A 7040 R50
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AC7060IL
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Posted: 27 Mar 2024 at 3:33pm |
Lars(wi) wrote:
The advantage of syn motor oils is the cold starts, syn oils should leave a slight film of oil on surfaces, better than conventional oils. Have you tried other brands of full syn oils? Same results? |
Thanks Lars(wi). You might have something there? As for Full Synthetics, the "regular?" Full Synthetic Super-Tech 5w-30 was the only brand I used. I say "regular" because during 2019 when I began my engine's sludge removal 5K mileage intervals, it was what I found. Since then, it seemed companies now offer a "High mileage" Full synthetic. So maybe I'll give it a try? It claims to do everything the regular offers plus "increased protection for high mileage engines."
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AC7060IL
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Posted: 27 Mar 2024 at 3:38pm |
KJCHRIS wrote:
I'd Try your previous oil again at next service to see if noise stays or goes!! I've run 5W-30 synthetic blend in 2 vehicles since new. The 2001 has 330,000+ and 2010 has 140,000+ miles, both are Ford 5.4 V8's, 5,000 mile oil & filter changes no issues with leaks or noises.
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Thanks. I guess in part, I did that - going back to conventional oil. Due to the engine's sludge issue, I have kept the synthetic formula in the recipe for added cleaning properties.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 27 Mar 2024 at 5:54pm |
If you want a Synthetic oil and the 5w30 is "to thin" and causes the knock.. You might switch to a 10w30 oil and see what happens.. Even a 15w40 might work ??
Seems like "synthetic" is the name of the game now.. Some places dont have much of a selection ( if any) on conventional oils..
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Thad in AR.
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Posted: 28 Mar 2024 at 5:22am |
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My 2000 GMC 6.0 LS has 600000 on the original motor. Never had a drop of synthetic oil in it. Quaker state 10/30.
It rattles on startup on cold mornings.
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AC7060IL
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Posted: 28 Mar 2024 at 7:55am |
steve(ill) wrote:
If you want a Synthetic oil and the 5w30 is "to thin" and causes the knock.. You might switch to a 10w30 oil and see what happens.. Even a 15w40 might work ??
Seems like "synthetic" is the name of the game now.. Some places dont have much of a selection ( if any) on conventional oils.. |
Thanks Steve(ill). I wondered that too. Toyota OEM for this 1mz-fe non VVT engine list 5w-30, so thought I'd stay with it in trying to wash engine of sludge buildup. Maybe a 5w-30 being somewhat thinner, might wash it quicker, but safer?? Also, some say the thinner oils offer better mileage over thicker ones~I don't know?? This endeavor has been my first go at Synthetic oils & a moderate? engine sludge removal process. The "Bob is the oil guy" site, a few other forum sites, & a few local auto repair mechanics seem to mostly reiterate using the synthetic oil to safely remove engine sludge. Process began at 212K. Now at 310K & I'm very pleased with results. Last summer wife&I drove it a 6000 mile vacation cross country trip out west thru the Rockies, Sierras, Pacific CA1 to name a few & we both shared driving EVERYDAY~ Hahaha! She's a tailgater & I'm a defensive trucker. So van got bot abused & cuddled. Before that trip, I changed oil/filter to Quaker State All Mileage Synthetic Blend & I only had to add 1 quart during that trip. So I thought, AwHaw! Finally found my oil ~ NOT! Quaker State quit offering it. Now, they only offer High Mileage Synthetic Blend. Go figure... For now, I'm good with my 1qt conv & 4 qt high mileage synthetic blend recipe.
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AC7060IL
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Posted: 28 Mar 2024 at 8:00am |
Thad in AR. wrote:
My 2000 GMC 6.0 LS has 600000 on the original motor. Never had a drop of synthetic oil in it. Quaker state 10/30.
It rattles on startup on cold mornings. |
Thad in AR, Congratulations! That's a lot of miles on a pickup. Also a very good representation for QS oil. Whats your OCI(oil change interval)? Thanks for the "rattles on startup on cold mornings" comment. Maybe its more common place that I thought?
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 28 Mar 2024 at 8:18am |
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Few years back, FORD was complaining that some AFTERMARKET filters did not have decent or any check valve in them... They said the valves HOLD OIL up in the filter when motor is off ( horizontal mount filters)... Seems like some 5.4 V8 owners were complaining about RATTLE ON START UP... FORD said it took a few seconds to refill the filter when the engine starts.. Solution to RATTLE was to use the MOTORCRAFT filter.... Seem to solve the problems..
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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AC7060IL
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Posted: 28 Mar 2024 at 10:12am |
Funny you mention motorcraft filters. Throughout this endeavor, I've cut open & viewed filter media content to note sludge amounts. The first two filter I used were the FL-400s on the initial Synthetic oil intervals. Back then, the FL-400s were a readily available filter(Walmart) that fit this engine & were a longer version filter to help capacitate sludge collection. They did ok. Here is a list of the 20 oil filters I've used during this endeavor(begin-recent). OCI ~ oil change interval. They all claim to have Anti-drain back valve to protect against dry starts and oil leaks. That was a feature I felt was necessary to omit any sludge draining back from filter into engine. Not to blame them, but the Wix 51516 was being used when I initially noticed the start-up knock. I like Wix & don't think the knock was due them as much was the synthetic/synthetic blend oils. To my understanding, the latter 3 oil filters are all mfg by same company (Mann+Hummel).
Motorcraft FL-400s, OCI 1 & 2
Wix 51516, OCI 3 thru 18,
Carquest R85516, OCI 19,
Purolator L20195, OCI 20.
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Kenny L.
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Posted: 28 Mar 2024 at 1:50pm |
steve(ill) wrote:
Few years back, FORD was complaining that some AFTERMARKET filters did not have decent or any check valve in them... They said the valves HOLD OIL up in the filter when motor is off ( horizontal mount filters)... Seems like some 5.4 V8 owners were complaining about RATTLE ON START UP... FORD said it took a few seconds to refill the filter when the engine starts.. Solution to RATTLE was to use the MOTORCRAFT filter.... Seem to solve the problems.. |
I had a 1999 F250 super duty and that old girl didn't like any other oil filter but Motorcraft, when using other filter the 7.3 would rattle more on start up using the same oil Motorcraft 10w30 blended synthetic.
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Thad in AR.
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Posted: 28 Mar 2024 at 7:12pm |
AC7060IL wrote:
Thad in AR. wrote:
My 2000 GMC 6.0 LS has 600000 on the original motor. Never had a drop of synthetic oil in it. Quaker state 10/30.
It rattles on startup on cold mornings. |
Thad in AR, Congratulations! That's a lot of miles on a pickup. Also a very good representation for QS oil. Whats your OCI(oil change interval)?
Thanks for the "rattles on startup on cold mornings" comment. Maybe its more common place that I thought?
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I try to change it every 3500 miles. Run a little late some times of late. It uses a quart or so between changes.
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wade89
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Posted: 28 Mar 2024 at 8:15pm |
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Everything I own runs conventional Castrol mixed with Castrol High Zinc 20/50 weight and a quart of Lucas stabilizer and they’ve all got high miles. Yukons currently at 265,000 with no issues. Problem I’ve run into with synthetics is losing rear main seals and having oil leaks pop up wherever it can make its way out.
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