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spitfire_er 
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 Topic: FB 20 24 forklift help
Posted: 27 Feb 2024 at 12:23pm |
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I have a guy coming tonight to look at it. I don't mind spending a little more to get a little nicer machine. I can't have oil dripping on my floors and I need pneumatic tires as well. I do have a brake master coming but not sure I'll get to that part of it. I haven't looked at the brakes, but it will need the master regardless. It also has the hand brake which just needs The broken cable hooked back up.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 25 Feb 2024 at 9:13pm |
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So have you decided to keep it ?? Looks like you got a lot of the HARD stuff done... Everything that is "OLD" and "GOOD PRICE" is going to have a variety of problems... as you have seen..
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spitfire_er
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Posted: 25 Feb 2024 at 8:55pm |
Got it running better. Had a bad head gasket leak. Olson's gaskets had a NOS one so got it replaced. Here's a couple videos I did on getting it going. https://youtu.be/XlYs_THg_eMAnd head gasket replacement. https://youtu.be/Rptskq-TankI ordered a brake master that should be here Thursday ro see if I can get those going. The mast cylinder leaks and not sure I want to fix it, but not sure if I can get a gasket set for it ether. Never done one.
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spitfire_er
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Posted: 13 Feb 2024 at 5:33pm |
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I tried dumping some gas down the carb and it sputtered.
Got me to thinking about the direction of the distributor and if it's running CW or CCW. Found the main problem!
I had it set to fire running CW. Distributor runs CCW. Firing order 1-2-4-3. Swapped 2 and 3 and it ran for a minute.
Put the vaporizer back on and got it running for several minutes on propane.
Looks like I have a pretty severe head gasket leak though. Plugs were all wet.
Couldn't get it running after shutting it off and trying to restart it in an hour.
I think I'm at the point of selling it. While I think its cool, it's not going to work for what I need. I should have somone coming Friday to buy it and I will be looking for another one, hopefully a little newer.
I will be putting up a video on YouTube once I get it all edited. Was a lot of footage to edit.
Edited by spitfire_er - 13 Feb 2024 at 5:34pm
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spitfire_er
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Posted: 11 Feb 2024 at 3:17pm |
Back at it. I got it spinning. New plugs and wires. Spark appears correct. Will sputter with ether but looks like I'm not getting LP past ether the selonoid shutoff valve just before the vaporizer or nothing through the vaporizer. Not sure what the shutoff is called or where to get it, but I'm looking right after this. The vap. Is an Ensign RDG 55A3. Not sure what. The sellonoid thing is. Edit: Just checked the shutoff and it appears to be working. Smelled lp when I took it apart too. Also, it is low on coolant and I didn't want to fill it till I got it running. Does the coolant provide any vacuum? Could that be why it's not working? Guessing the vaporizer is bad or leaking. Wonder if I can just replace it with a new one?   
Edited by spitfire_er - 11 Feb 2024 at 4:28pm
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DaveKamp
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Posted: 04 Feb 2024 at 9:46am |
The 'propane thingy' that has water hoses going to it, is an 'evaporator'. It provides heat to help make the liquid propane want to become vapor.
Take a soft bristle brush and scrub off the surfaces of the fuel system components. You'll find under there brand and model names, possibly model type serial numbers. You'll probably also find plenty of dirt over the breather vents and such. Take photos of the identification.
The original evaporator for that vintage could have been by several major manufacturers, Ensign was one of the most prolific then. Beam, Garretson, Zenith, Algas, Hoof, Rego, Impco... and probably a half dozen others I've missed.
Propane fuel system needs the following steps:
- Storage (tank) - Withdrawl Wethod (liquid or vapor). Mobile equipment, using small tanks need to be vapor withdrawl, stationary systems with large tanks are usually fine with vapor
Fuel lockoff- a method of shutting off fuel supply in the event that the engine isn't running. Lockoff is different from 'cutoff', which is a function of the fuel metering system.
Evaporation - Vaporous systems don't need an evaporator, but liquid withdrawl does. MOST evaporators use engine heat to warm the liquid and improve evap, as unevaporated liquid going into low pressure devices is really, really bad.
First stage regulation- drops tank pressure from whatever it happens to be, to either 10psi, 5psi, or 2psi
Second stage regulation - drops first stage pressure from 10/5/ or 2 to 11" water column (around 0.4 psi)
Fuel supply hand valve - on stationary engines, always place a fuel supply hand valve just before the fuel controller.
Fuel controller, aka 'zero governor' aka 'demand regulator' aka 'negative pressure regulator'. The function of this device is to accept gaseous fuel at 11" water column, and 'meter' it to the engine based on engine DEMAND. it is a mechanically proportional device, that has two other extremely important functions: When the engine is stopped, it must be sensitive enough to totally CUT OFF fuel flow... and when the engine is CRANKING, it must be sensitive enough to respond and allow fuel into the airstream. They are henceforth, devices that must be treated with delicate care.
LOAD Block, aka 'power valve' is an adjustable orfice located between the fuel controller and the demand point (the mixer) which limits the maximum fuel flow possible under full load. The piping between the fuel controller to the load block needs to be as short as possible, and unrestrictive, so that the load block performs properly AND the engine is responsive to load.
The 'spud'... an orfice which is located at the 'demand point' of a venturi... it is located in the divergent edge of a venturi, and airflow through the venturi generates negative pressure which draws gaseous fuel from the fuel controller, through the metering block, into the intake airstream. As airstream velocity increases, spud pressure at that demand point falls lower, demanding more fuel from the fuel controller.
Mixer - The mixer is a gaseous equivalent of a 'carbeurator', but it isn't a 'carbeurator', because it is not accepting and metering a liquid, it is simply mixing gaseous fuel with incoming air. The mixer can be a part that stands alone, with a venturi and spud, or it can be a liquid carbeurator that has been fitted with an additional spud point to be added as an option. A mixer can also be a secondary venturi with a spud, that is placed either between a manifold and carb, or between the carb and air filter.
Hopefully this will make it easier for you to identify the components in your forklift.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 03 Feb 2024 at 6:42pm |
GREAT !!!.... a good set of HEAVY cables is a MUST on a 6v system... The 4 gauge will work when new, but long term, you should get a couple NEW CABLES.. HEAVY DUTY !!
Of course your only talking about a 60 cubic inch motor spread out over 4 cylinders... and probably not very high compression ratio.... You may not need the REAL HEAVY.. but would be nice to have #2 all the way around..... with NEW ends and clean GROUND.
Edited by steve(ill) - 03 Feb 2024 at 6:45pm
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spitfire_er
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Posted: 03 Feb 2024 at 5:46pm |
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Well, finally figured it out. I ended up fully charging the battery, new batt cables and got same issue. The. Tried to jump from the back side of solenoid and nothing. Took off the the 0 Gauge wire from selonoid to starter and made up a new 4 Guage. Popped off w/o hesitation.
Was that wire the whole time!
Now I need to replace the water hose from the engine to the LP thing, wait for my new tank to arrive and hopefully get it at least running this next week.
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DiyDave
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Posted: 02 Feb 2024 at 4:17am |
Before you get the propane, check the carborator. On propane carbs, there is a little atmospheric pressure sensing thingie (forget what it's called) that the mud dubbers and hole spiders love to stuff fulla mud, at least around here. If that thingie is blocked, carb no workie... 
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spitfire_er
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Posted: 01 Feb 2024 at 11:47pm |
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Worked on it today a little. My neighbor is a former motor repair guy that had a shop in town for many years. He looked the starter over and said it looked good and seemed to work just fine after I cleaned it up.
While the starter was off I was able to spin the motor with a prybar on the flywheel. I turned it a couple revolutions. I did notice a couple tight spots but I backed off and spun it back and after a couple of those, I was able to turn it over via the belt and pulley and it spun freely.
I'm at the point now to where I'm going tonreplace both battery cables because both leads have bad corrosion just after the clamps with some fraying of the wires.
It is also written "+ positive ground" under the engine cover in a sharpie. I was able to get it to spin the engine a couple times jumping direct to the starter.
Getting closer. I think I'm ready for a propane tank which I don't have yet.
I also believe my brand new $150 battery didn't have a good charge. I charged it for an hour and it spun the starter. It's charging overnight.
Edited by spitfire_er - 01 Feb 2024 at 11:49pm
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 31 Jan 2024 at 12:06pm |
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Before you pull the head off again, take the spark plugs out and try to turn the pulley.. If it does rotate and you think its the starter motor, you save a step.. If it wont turn, then take off the head...... if your SURE that pump on the front is not locked up ??
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spitfire_er
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Posted: 31 Jan 2024 at 9:29am |
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Thanks, I do believe that is correct. It does look exactly like a waukesha engine. I will have to pull the head again and check the valves. I'm not sure how to turn it by hand outside of spinning the flywheel with prybar. There is a pump mounted on the front. Maybe since it's loose from yesterday I can spin the pulley by hand. I'll try and look later today and mess with it.
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DaveKamp
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Posted: 31 Jan 2024 at 12:00am |
There's one thing that can cause a flathead to become unwilling to rotate past a certain point- a stuck valve tappet. IF you force it, when the cam tries to push on that tappet, it will risk breaking the camshaft, or the block. When I've found an engine that had that circumstance (and it hadn't been broken yet), spraying penetrant into the tappets and the valve areas, and tapping on each valve with a softwood mallet will usually knock them loose with no damage. roll it over gently by hand, and if you feel resistance, STOP... and look at which valve should move NEXT...
But I think your circumstance is just a goin' through of the starter.
The ICK is a sweet little motor... especially where it was used as a pony to warm up, then start a big 12+ cylinder... you prime and wrap a string around the ICK's front end (there's no radiator, it simply circulates the main engine's coolant) and pull the string, it burbles to life... walk away for an hour, let it circulate coolant, flow exhaust, and pump oil... and when you come back, set the big engine into starting configuration, wind up the ICK's throttle, pull the clutch out gently, and get the big engine's crank turning... after a few dozen turns, give the big engine some fuel and it chugs to life...
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Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 30 Jan 2024 at 9:07pm |
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YES... but he says it is an AUTO LITE starter number MAK 4023 and it goes on a WAK ICK engine... thats YOU ! ... not to purchase... just good info.
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spitfire_er
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Posted: 30 Jan 2024 at 8:18pm |
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I did a Google search for that the other day and it came up with nothing. That link is for a wanted ad.
Edited by spitfire_er - 30 Jan 2024 at 8:51pm
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 30 Jan 2024 at 7:36pm |
If it ends up being the starter... and you dont have a local shop.. Call DA MAN !
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 30 Jan 2024 at 7:30pm |
Brett... you may want to bar the engine over a couple revolutions to check everything.. With the head off, you might be able to rotate the water pump / fan belt/ etc to check things out......
Not exactly the same, but i have seen auto engines "locked up" that ended up being a frozen alternator bearing, steering pump , air conditioner compressor, belt tensioner...i know you dont have these, but just VERIFY the engine will roll ALL the way around a couple times... Bearings / rods / governor broke / distributor froze / cam shaft stuck...etc... you never know.
Edited by steve(ill) - 30 Jan 2024 at 7:33pm
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 30 Jan 2024 at 7:17pm |
well............ that narrows it down.. quick GOOGLE search ...
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spitfire_er
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Posted: 30 Jan 2024 at 6:53pm |
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Where is the ID tag?
I did pull the head today and was able to rock it back and forth in gear and the cylinders seemed to move freely and it all looked good.
Guess I'm back to the starter. It is marked "MAK 4023" Spins freely under power when its on the bench. Won't spin on the engine.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 29 Jan 2024 at 10:38pm |
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I bet your right Dave.. I was thinking a little BIGGER on the motor, but the little ICK is probably closer to the size it originally came with... and that was the flat head.
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DaveKamp
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Posted: 29 Jan 2024 at 9:56pm |
Could be a Conti, a Waukesha, or a Hercules.
My gut says that it's around 60ish ci...
For Conti, that would be an N56, N62, or Y-69... For WOOKIE, probably an ICK (61ci) If Hercules, either a ZXA(59), ZXB (65ci) orone of it's brethren.
LOOKS like a Waukesha ICK, due to the water neck being centrally located, and no distributor through the top of the head... but you'll need to find the engine ID tag to be certain.
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Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 29 Jan 2024 at 9:27pm |
Cant say for sure... but with the spark plugs on TOP like this... it would lead you to believe it is a FLAT HEAD engine.. So your Continental "guess" could be correct..
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spitfire_er
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Posted: 29 Jan 2024 at 9:07pm |
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Thank you very much. I'll have to double check and order one.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 29 Jan 2024 at 8:59pm |
obvious difference in head gaskets for each manufacturer...
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 29 Jan 2024 at 8:45pm |
At one point in time, the FB20- 24 used a WAUKESHA 4 cylinder engine.. ?
--------------------
It would appear that many of the 4 cyl Continentals all use the same head gasket..( flat head L engine)... If you cant find a serial number / model tag on the engine block, i would pull the head and measure the BORE and STROKE and determine from that which motor.
Edited by steve(ill) - 29 Jan 2024 at 9:02pm
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spitfire_er
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Posted: 29 Jan 2024 at 8:24pm |
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Haven't done much with this, but did get the starter working. Installed it and the solenoid clicks but doesn't engage the starter. Power direct to starter works. But it turned then quickly stopped due to I'm pretty sure it's locked up. My next step may be to pull the head and try and clean as much as I can. I will need a new gasket though and I'm not sure which engine it is, was told it's a continental. Can I make a gasket?
Thinking if I can break it free, which will be a task, I can get it running.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 10 Jan 2024 at 1:36pm |
couple spoons full of penetrating oil down each plug hole might help.. Setting for several days can also help it soak in...
Hydraulics are nothing special... hydraulic fluid / hytrans / 10wt/ AW32 or 46 ... about anything is OK.
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spitfire_er
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Posted: 08 Jan 2024 at 11:27pm |
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Pulled the plugs today and pretty sure it got done condensation in the engine. Will have to try and break it free. No good spot to turn by hand so I'll need to pull it with my truck.
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spitfire_er
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Posted: 06 Jan 2024 at 10:35pm |
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Tried again today. Selonoid clicked with the start button. Starter did nothing. Ran jumper to starter and it clicked once and nothing. I might have to double check the starter and pull it off. The other thing is I didn't check to see if the motor was stuck!
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spitfire_er
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Posted: 05 Jan 2024 at 10:46pm |
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Hooked it all up and tried it. Got a very faint click. Wasn't even a click, but I heard it. Might check the selonoid tomorrow to see if it's works. Might jump the starter too. Guess I never tested it on the bench.
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