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Help With HD5

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Ripsnorterranch View Drop Down
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Joined: 07 Jul 2018
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    Posted: 07 Jul 2018 at 3:33pm
Hey folks im looking for little insight on a dozer i just picked up. its "1965 A-C HD5" although that doesn't sound right to me. it has a dozer blade, Ripper and a 2-71 engine., currently has no charging happening, i believe it has been refurbished and is swapped to 12v wiring. any help on what year, charging info, etc is greatly appreciated
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JC-WI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2018 at 5:02pm
Believe it is 12 volt positive ground if the generator is original... and it probably is a 1955 not 1965...just my thought.
He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself
The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DiyDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2018 at 5:51pm
The serial # would help...Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray54 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2018 at 5:57pm
Jc is correct. I replaced the generator and regulator on one with a Delco 3 wire so no regulator.The starter did not care that I reversed the polarity. But they where 12 volt from new just had a 6 volt battery in each arm rest. I have never seen one with 2 batteries out here,but never colder than low teens,so a start well below 0 might need more.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gemdozer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2018 at 6:38pm
The HD5  271 DETROIT are all 12 volts .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ripsnorterranch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2018 at 6:45pm
thanks for the info. i do see that it has openings on both sides for a battery so that makes sense. the serial # is HD5B18601. i pulled to top cover "hood" to get a better look and found that the wires from the alternator to the gauges are both cooked. anybody have a wiring diagram for it that i could use to figure out what goes where? i have just a starter button wired to the starter and it works fine, just doesn't charge the battery. and up here in canada, i may need the battery power once winter comes!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Coke-in-MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2018 at 7:10pm
HD5B sel # makes it a 1953 - 
Looks like starter was changed to M42 late starter as they did not use a solonoid but a rod to a contact switch on starter 
 Wiring diagram - depending on how unit is set up - using a 10SI alternator (1 wire) a hot lead would run from alternator to amp gauge then down to battery side of solonoid #10 wire - from that terminal to key switch or starter button a #16 wire would complete circuit to one terminal of solonoid to energise it . 
 On 10SI a loop wire #16 goes from output terminal on back up to #1 on regulator block in alternator (this wire is sensing wire for regulator) this controls the charge by reading battery voltage,  from starter solonoid to starter is a heavy strap of copper - then from back of starter to frame a heavy ground wire is needed 
 If the starter you have now is not a M42 and that solonoid shown control current to starter then foot operated rod must still be there to engage the starter drive . 
 Think you have a mess that needs someone who is familiar with auto electric to help . 
Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Coke-in-MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2018 at 7:12pm
Post a picture of the starter and can tell you more - as that solonoid hanging there is a completly foreign object to any AC or Delco system .
Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NomoreJohnDeere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2018 at 10:30pm
Nice setup
Did it come with ear plugs?
HD3
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shameless dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jul 2018 at 1:24am
that's a nice looking unit! on my HD5, it would start without starting fluid down to about 10 degrees. I just had 1 12V battery on mine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Coke-in-MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jul 2018 at 10:39am
Any more info or picture of starter area or the unit itself 
Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ripsnorterranch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug 2018 at 4:00pm
sorry for the delay... been super busy with house renos and all the fun stuff.  
back to the stuff i think is fun, pushing trees over Big smile
here are some pictures of the starter and alternator
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eric B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Aug 2018 at 11:11pm
If the starter works fine by just pushing the button you won't need to do any more to it. At one time that solenoid was likely put in to give good current to the solenoid on the starter itself. I've had trucks with old Detroit power set up that way. It's just important that you have a heavy duty (push button) switch so there is no shortage of current going to the solenoid mounted on the starter. If you have insufficient amps hitting the solenoid, the starter motor is starved and will turn over slower than it should and may shorten starter life span. The red wires attached in the picture seem to be a good gauge for the job. If your alternator itself is good there is an easy way to wire it up for charging even if you don't have an ignition key/switch on your machine. Just let us know the current state of affairs... maybe you have it wired by now? I can tell you how to get it charging the Canadian way LOL. Another thing I would highly recommend you do is to put a real good quality battery disconnect switch on your machine. If anything goes wrong with wiring on an old machine and wires start shorting out and smoking... even starting a fire - you just flip the disconnect switch and save further damage. This may not apply to you but if kids get on the machine when parked and start playing around with switches and buttons you can prevent a lot of trouble by having no current in the system. 

Edited by Eric B - 23 Aug 2018 at 11:19pm
Currently- WD,WC,3WF's,2 D14's B. Previously- I 600,TL745,200,FL9,FR12,H3,816 LBH. Earth has no sorrow that Heaven cannot heal!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dadsdozerhd5b Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Aug 2018 at 12:18am
I have wired this type of alternator on tractors. the stud goes to the plug on the side of the alternator like it does but the cut wire goes to the battery. the other wire from the plug I wire to a light on the dash. you need a 2 wire light, not a self grounding light. the other side of the light gets wired to the ignition side of the key switch which should not have anything wired to it since it is a diesel, assuming you do not just have a momentary switch to engage the starter. when you turn the key on the light comes on and once you start the engine the light goes out once it is charging. sometimes you need to accelerate the engine to get the charging started. easy way to show it is charging. I then use a volt meter instead of an ammeter. to me I want to see it is putting out 13 volts or higher rather than how much it is charging. after a few minutes the ammeter will read about zero as it is not using any power. with a volt meter you can see charge is happening. on the starter, there are 2 smaller terminals. one goes to ground and the other goes to the start pole on the key switch. I would also put a fuse on the hot side of the key switch just in case. I hope that makes sense.
HD5B, HD5G, (2) FARMALL A's, CUB. DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME, IGNORE THE LAUGHTER. FLANNEL IS ALWAYS IN STYLE.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ripsnorterranch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Aug 2018 at 10:06am
Eric B the starter works great with the push button the way it is set up right now. fires right up in a few seconds no problem. as for the alternator, im listening on how you would recommend to wire it up. it looks like the original wires were actually pinched in between the fuel filter and housing and that is how they burnt. i haven't wired it yet but i have put in a good battery disconnect as you mentioned. exactly for those kinds of reasons, and then i know if it sits for a bit there was now parasitic draw on the battery. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinball Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Aug 2018 at 2:40pm
nice looking dozer. do you have an amp meter. I just put delco alternators on my dozers. put a diode in the discharge line and hook it to the amp meter. other wire goes to your switch so It only has charging power with the switch turned on. coat around 50 bucks here and sure saves on batterys enjoy your machine. my h4 is a 66 nd the h5 are older. 55 might be right.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eric B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 2018 at 1:05pm
In the event that your HD 5 does not have an ignition switch of any kind that you have to turn on before starting and off when shutting down, this is how you can have your alternator start charging by just pushing the starter button. Take the two wires on the alternator (in the little plug on the picture, field and regulator) and twist them together with one additional wire that can reach the "S" contact (the small stud) on your starter solenoid. Into this line you MUST splice in a 6 AMP diode so 12V can only flow to the pigtail on the alternator but not be able to come back from the alternator to the solenoid or else the starter won't quit when you let go of the button. You MUST make sure you have the diode facing the right direction by testing flow direction on a battery using a 12V light bulb. The idea here is that while the engine is turning over and starting, enough current goes up to those two terminals to excite charging mode. Charging works until you shut the engine off and this way there is no draw on your system after. The battery terminal on the alternator can go to the ammeter if you have one, if not just connect it to the stud on the starter that has the fat battery cable coming to it. If you don't have a working ammeter and you want to know if the alternator is charging just put a screw driver to the back of the centre bearing cap on the alternator, if you have magnetism and the screw driver sticks it's working... if the screw driver doesn't stick it's not charging.
Your nearest auto parts store should have a 6 AMP diode but don't pay any outrageous price for one because they're cheap from the right places.
Please let us know how you make out, thanks. If you have more questions about this you can send me a private email if you wish (or phone call, I'm in the BC Interior).

Currently- WD,WC,3WF's,2 D14's B. Previously- I 600,TL745,200,FL9,FR12,H3,816 LBH. Earth has no sorrow that Heaven cannot heal!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ripsnorterranch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2019 at 1:31pm
Alright, i got the wiring working so when it gets enough oil pressure to the switch for the lights it will turn on the alternator, so it doesn't always kick on right on starting, but it will once you idle up. works fine for what I'm doing as the little 2-71 runs idled up pretty good when running anyway. 

i have a new issue though.
it starts fine and will run for about 10-15 mins then its starts to get a lot of blow-by and loses throttle response and will eventually snuff itself out. if i let it cool off it will start up again and run for another 10 or so minutes, then die and a lot of white smoke coming from the oil fill tube. 
engine oil level is maybe a little bit high, and i put multigrade in. i was told that i should have straight 40W in it by a fella in edmonton on the phone. 
im just wondering if there is anything else i can try before i tear it apart and source out parts for a rebuild.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Coke-in-MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2019 at 5:54pm
Fuel pressure - filters need to be clean - tank pickup needs to be clean - return line to tank needs to be open - tank needs to be vented - HV7 Injectors used . 
 Make sure air cleaner is not full of crud and the bowl for oil is clean and filled to right level - pre filter clean - drain hole on bottom of blower not plugged - 
Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JC-WI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2019 at 8:32pm
And also check on the feed line to the filters hasn't been replaced with a rubber hose that it isn't plugged. Mine would run for awhile, start stuttering on one cylinder and lose power and die.
 Rubber fuel line broke down inside and starved engine. Fittings on old hose were fine thread and could not find fine thread nipples for new hose so I salvaged the ends off the old hose cutting the brass crimped sleeve and then hose clamped them into new hose.
He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself
The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray54 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2019 at 3:36pm
Had simalar problem changed all the fuel lines and filters, no impovement. Finally changed the little fuel pump on the side of the block. This was 20 years ago and the pump was cheap,but who knows now days.I believe the Snowflakes have desided the old engines are the devils work.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ripsnorterranch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 2019 at 6:05pm
I was talking to an old boy about the issues i am having where it will run for awhile then loses power and dies and he said that the injectors would be worn? any truth to that? i can get a set of injector locally and swap them out... any tips on doing it or what not to do. or am i heading in the right direction?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dadsdozerhd5b Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 2019 at 6:28pm
I believe if the injectors are worn it would run badly all the time. Did you check all the things listed earlier? Fuel lines, filters, vented cap or could be clogged? Put a gauge in the tee at the rear of the engine on the return line and check the pressure. Put a line on the return and put in a can and make sure you are getting return fuel. If it starts and runs I do t believe injectors are at fault.
HD5B, HD5G, (2) FARMALL A's, CUB. DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME, IGNORE THE LAUGHTER. FLANNEL IS ALWAYS IN STYLE.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ripsnorterranch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 2019 at 9:58pm
fuel lines are fairly new, filters are new, cap isn't air locking the tank. the thing that confuses me is that it will run great for about 20 mins then it loses power and finally quits. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Coke-in-MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 2019 at 11:49pm
Clean your air filter well - make sure the element isn't full of crud so when oil is pulled up it drains back into bowl . 
 One machine I bought the full bowl was solid dirt as was the internal of filter - starved for air and hardly run 
Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eric B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Nov 2019 at 12:14pm
I fully agree with the good advice in the above three posts. I would not spend money on new injectors. It sounds like it's starving for fuel (or air), I suggest you check the bottom of the fuel tank, as the machine vibrates with running, debris easily closes in at the fuel outlet and seriously restricts flow. I've had diesels die for that reason. Maybe this is repeating but make sure you haven't missed a sock filter somewhere along the fuel line. That was the problem with a grader I used to have. One load of bad fuel can also plug up the filters in a few hours. I had this happen to my gravel truck. One fill up at a regular gas station was bad enough that the filters plugged up and serious power loss happened in one day. They wouldn't own up to it but the fuel was black by simply shining a flash light into the tank.
Currently- WD,WC,3WF's,2 D14's B. Previously- I 600,TL745,200,FL9,FR12,H3,816 LBH. Earth has no sorrow that Heaven cannot heal!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray54 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Nov 2019 at 1:05pm
If the filters and lines are good,and fuel flows from tank it is most likely the pump. HD 5 has 2 fuel filters from the factory,but that was 65+ years ago. Who knows what has been added or subtracted in that time. The Detriots I have been around would need starting fluid even hot to start with bad injectors.

Who know what the pump costs today,but was very cheap back about 2000 when I did it. Three 3/8 bolts and the in and out line,unless acessories have it buried a 15 minute job. To change injector you need speical tools and a bit knowledge,the pump anybody can do.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Coke-in-MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Nov 2019 at 2:26pm
You can pull the injectors and have bench tested at a Detroit Diesle shop - 
I replaced mine back when I had a account with a trucking company doing snow plowing there. detroit wanted about $50 for a injector - my cost through dealer was $28 for rebuilts .
 If you do any work on injectors DO NOT TIGHTEN FUEL LINES over 15 lb torque - in fact they recommend installing new lines instead of reuse . the lines are double flared at both ends . 
 If you pull injectors you will need a pin gauge or vernier scale to reset them and also need to time the rack ( neither is hard but it takes some knowledge )
Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."
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