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Testing the crawler waters (again).

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The Consultator View Drop Down
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Joined: 19 Sep 2017
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Consultator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Testing the crawler waters (again).
    Posted: 04 Feb 2018 at 10:25am
I'm curious about the current market and availability of HD-5's and 6's. I did a quick internet search with less-than-ideal results. What can I expect to pay for a project crawler, versus a descent condition one. I know these are relative terms, but a ballpark would be helpful.

Thanks!
1939 Allis-Chalmers "B" restored in 2010- very good condition.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ferdinand Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 2018 at 11:21am
I've been looking at crawler market prices for a couple of years now. Project dozers run from $1200 (sometimes "free") up to about $4k. Nice ones from there to about $11k.
Ever once in a while a true deal comes around. RickyV (?) on this forum got a very low time HD11 for $1900.00. 
you asked about the -5 and -6, they seem to be more desirable and usually have a slightly higher asking price. There was a -5 or -6 loader (complete, running when parked many years prior) in South Carolina just a month ago. The guy wanted $600.00 for it. The ad was on Craigslist for about 3 days.
When searching for dozer I use: www.searchtempest.com   ; That website searches Craigslist ads from just your local area to the entire U.S. You set the search parameters.
Because narrow is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leads unto life, and few there be that find it.
Mathew 7:14
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Coke-in-MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 2018 at 11:46am
Location is one of big things - as cost of moving a machine can be the expensive part of a CHEAP machine . 
 Then HD5 or HD6 machines are OLD now and track parts are next to made from UNOBTANIUM materials .
 I sold a HD5B as well as 2 HD5G machines about 10 years back for about $3000 
Now I might think of selling my remaining HD5G for $5,000 to $7,000 - would i get it ??? hard to say .
 Then I replaced both a HD4 and HD5B with later machines - a Fiat/Allis FD5 and a New Holland 785 Skid loader along with a AC 715B-D backhoe .
 Old machines to be used to make a living - well they might still do the job but it seems customers are more impressed with new things - problem is they still complain when you charge them over what they think you should be paid - after all $40 a hour for a man and machine is to much --- Cry  you should be willing to work for nothing or near that amount Handshake
Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 2018 at 1:07pm
One other aspect is 'Project' where unless you have really deep pockets and exorbitant amounts of time to spend searching for parts or doing custom mods to make other brand parts fit then you can afford them. My pockets thinned and shortened after I retired, the problem with that is the old 7G still needs considerable money spent while I do now have the time to throw at it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Consultator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 2018 at 1:30pm
Thank you all for the information and perspectives. I'll keep my eyes open, and hopefully when the time is right, find a great deal.
1939 Allis-Chalmers "B" restored in 2010- very good condition.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Coke-in-MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 2018 at 2:53pm
One of the members here called me about doing work on his HD4 - after we talked a bit he had nentioned he was going to buy a 2nd machine to fix the first . 
 We talked and he mentioned price - I suggested he sell machine 1 - take money and add what he was going to spend on machine 2 and look at a newer machine . 
 He ended up buying a FD5 dozer - says power shift and 70 HP sure outwork a HD4 .
Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote B52FXR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2018 at 9:32pm
Coke has helped me a tremendous amount on my FD5. A million thanks Sir!  I live in OKC, OK and no Fiat Allis machines around here to be found. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Coke-in-MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2018 at 9:46am
Seems most of us are looking for that bargain unit we can replace a few bolts and then run it for a few years or until ?
 In 1972 I decided I needed a crawler and looked around - found a HD5G about 2 miles from my place - was a 1955 unit and according to owner was excellent and he had overhauled it recently ! Did it without even painting it ???  Low oil pressure though (winter oil) - I replaced the oil pump which helped some - ran it for about a year - replaced bearings - helped some - about year later leaking oil from rear main - had crank ground as it was out of spec and replaced thrust bearings - did sleeves and pistons also, rebuilt injectors installed (HV7) 
 Next was welding up grousers using re-bar onto track plates - next year new sprocket rings welded onto spokes - new track chain - replace steering clutches with HD11 centised metal plates, replace master clutch with ceramic pad clutch , 
 Seems a year later burned a valve - installed rebuilt head as crack by injector tube - replaced rear output shaft bearing in transmission - replaced high speed reverse gear and bushing - rebuilt shift lever and tower pivot, replace transmission front seal and yoke , new u joints in driveshaft and front yoke slip - rebuild clutch pressure plate and brass slip sleeve in throwout section .
 So them old machines end up costing a lot of time and a lot of $$$ over the years - but still have the machine 
 
Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote michale34 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2018 at 1:03pm
I guess  thats part of the gamble coke.  3 years ago i needed a new lawnmower. Was going to go buy a new one and found out about one that a man had bought a had passed away .It looked new with low hours and I thought of saving money I bought it. It lasted 2 1/2 years . I had to replace the battery right off .First 15 minnets of using it the belt broke so I replaced it .Two weeks latter a spindle locked up and after that the starter went bad. Next season drive belt broke and tenion pully locked up and not to mention another belt. Last year I replaced the deck belt first off and it did fine up till mid july. the muffer got loose so I tightened it up about 10 minnets later I started smelling oil burning and it died. The block cracked and the cylinder broke loose from the block from a couple of bolts comming loose from under the flywheel.  So game over. I traded it for a old yard man front engine old school machine that finnished the year out. This year will be a brand new one with a 3 year warranty . and im keeping the old mower for back up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2018 at 2:29pm
breaking belts is a sure sign of 1) wrong belt or 2) misaligned belt.
1) you should always buy 'OEM' belts.While $$$ they have Kevlar and will bend backwards! Regular V-belt will not last.

2) snag a tree limb,whack a tree root and the shock can bend metal just emought to throw off the alignment of the pulleys. Some riders are worse than others but none will last with a weebly-wobbly belt for long.

3) age...yup old belts die. Usually from strees or age cracks. After all WHO releases the tension springs after every cutting season ?? Hmm..not many, zero I bet( Yes, I'm guilty too....)

B&S engine failure( drip,drip oil) is common. Some 'engineer' specked steel bolts threaded into alumimum that ,well, gets HOT then cold...DOH... Now IF the assembly guys added some thick Locktite, it'd prevent the nuclear meltdown, but then you'd not by another machine, right ?!! In a near perfect World, you'd remove engine,add locktite and tighten all 8 or 9 bolts...maybe when you released the belt tensioners to save the belts....

Jay

3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)

Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jerbob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2018 at 4:09pm
Hahaha,, the money pit for sure. I still like the line and we have all seen it wether its a lawnmower, skidsteer or tractor,, "IT WAS RUNNING GREAT WHEN I PARKED IT!!".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote michale34 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2018 at 4:25pm
The engine failure on this one was a kohler  .The mower was a toro and the belts were all oem . The deck belt was 141 5/8 long and not one other brand used that size so they could be ordered from stens but the price was the same as toro.   Oh yes i have heard the line running when parked and it would run.  im like yea everything ran at some point lol.  I just thought this was a great buy and a good brand.    But I was wrong. After the engine falure I looked on the net and its a common problem and kohler wont do crap about it. My buddy who sells mowers said its like pulling teeth to get kohler to warenty anything but kawaski stands by 100 percent.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ages Cat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2018 at 4:26pm
I have found that construction equipment was a good investment. We ran 920 & 930 Caterpillar wheel loaders  in the late 70's and early 80's.We bought and sold several older Cat machines  and always did ok. You could fix them, get all parts overnite and if the machine was taken care of, it would resell for what I had paid for it. Buy something that you can get parts for and is resalable without taking a bath. Your cost of ownership will be a lot less. AC parts are all but gone. We have 4 AC crawlers, but without replacement parts, I would never put them on a job unless I had a spare machine for parts



























rgo Moorhead

Curt Anderson
HD3, HD5B, HD6E, HD6AG,HD6B dozer, I-400, 615, 616,(2) 620, 720, ACP25 lift truck, 1956 D Special Grader, AC 540 loader, AC 655 crawler loader, AC #84 plow, Simplicity lawn tractors.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DiyDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2018 at 6:17pm
Originally posted by michale34 michale34 wrote:

The engine failure on this one was a kohler  .The mower was a toro and the belts were all oem . The deck belt was 141 5/8 long and not one other brand used that size so they could be ordered from stens but the price was the same as toro.   Oh yes i have heard the line running when parked and it would run.  im like yea everything ran at some point lol.  I just thought this was a great buy and a good brand.    But I was wrong. After the engine falure I looked on the net and its a common problem and kohler wont do crap about it. My buddy who sells mowers said its like pulling teeth to get kohler to warenty anything but kawaski stands by 100 percent.

Toro has this thing about odd sized belts... A friend has a newer toro ZT, and its got an odd size belt, that runs around a corner, to drive the deck, and the sumbitch costs like a hundred bucks, too.  Just like jd, a captive part.

Was the Kohler motor a command 25?  They had a run of them about 5-10 years ago, that had a rep for dropping valves!

I like the Dixie Chopper, I bought back in 06, every belt on it I can get fer $10, or so, from surpluscenter.  It does eat the deck drive belt quite often, but nothing is ever perfect.  OH, and it has the Kohler 28 EFI motor, which has been bulletproof, 'cept fer a gasket or 2...Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote michale34 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2018 at 9:23pm
It was a kohler courage single cylinder . The old kohler command was a good one .I had a john deer with a 13.5 command and the mower and tractor wore out but the engine ran like a champ. My toro was a timecutter 50 the pully that the drive belt worked off of was held buy a threaded bracket and a special sholder bolt that only toro made . The bracket would strip and the sholder bolt would fly away and that was like 40 bucks a pop.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote michale34 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2018 at 9:27pm
Im thinking of ariens/gravely now . We got a good shop and good dealer support. The toro dealer is a motorcycle/atv shop and are not very good. If a person goes with deere it got to come from the deere dealer not lowes.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dozer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 2018 at 7:34am
Lawn mowers and dozers are quite different. Lawn mowers are engineered for low cost and throw away rather than rebuild. Dozers are designed to be repaired until replacement parts are no longer available. Purchasing a higher priced tracked machine that is working with no obvious faults is often less expensive than a project machine. The exception is if you enjoy restoring classic equipment as I do. I have been trying to sell one of my HD6G's for $7000. At that price I will be loosing money. I replaced the HD344 with a 7000 turbo motor and I spent more on the undercarriage than the machine cost. If I sell it I will look for another project.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Coke-in-MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 2018 at 11:18am
Hmm - and then there is the D6-9U CAT that I bought - another ran when parked thing - has a bad front idler wheel on it . Well the price was right at the time - and everyone needs a 1958 dozer that needs just a little work -Resurecting the dead can be expensive as well as trying to ones life . 
 I did get about 4 years use from it until I figured out every cent i made with it went back into repairs and that was with me doing the work . Got me a few jobs and kept couple workers busy and paid - but sure made me say uncle one year finally when transmission and steering clutches went bad while axle seals leaked oil and new rod bearings lost oil pressure as one crank throw looked like a file rather than a smooth round pin.
Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."
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