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Ryan Renko 
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Edwardsville, I
Points: 2313
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 Posted: 17 Mar 2018 at 9:40am |
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We had to pull the cylinder out of our 66 last summer because the bearing was out on the right side. Yes all the pulleys need to totally come off to pull it out. We were not under any time constraint so we just took our time and tried to enjoy tinkering on the old girl. My brother took many pictures and I will see if he will post them. Ryan
Edited by Ryan Renko - 17 Mar 2018 at 9:41am
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Lon(MN)
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Elk River,MN
Points: 1905
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Posted: 17 Mar 2018 at 10:39am |
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The large drive pulley can stay on and will fit through the holes. The pins for the pulley adjustment need to come out and if rusted can be difficult.
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littlemarv
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Joined: 10 Jun 2013
Location: Wisconsin
Points: 1826
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Posted: 17 Mar 2018 at 4:31pm |
I took a look at the right side of the cylinder today, the whole area where the pins for the pulley adjuster is coated in grease, so hopefully they come out. That is tomorrows project. Beautiful weather today, tomorrow is supposed to be even nicer. So today, we set about making some canvas. My brother in law works in a paper mill. He always gets the belting from the paper machines when they change it and scrap the old stuff. He uses it for an outdoor rug when camping, I lined the floor of my tarp shed with it (awesome stuff, nice enough to lay on and work on, yet lets all the oil from leaks go right through!) Anyways, I told him what I was doing this winter and asked him to grab me a roll of whatever he thought would work the best. After awhile, he sent over a roll of what he calls "dryer felt". So, we took the roll outside and threw it down on the driveway. Unfortunately, there is only one straight side on the stuff. Hopefully the saw lines in the concrete in my driveway are square, cause that's what we went off of. I asked awhile back about the sizes of the canvases, and was told 59.5" by 54" for the upper, and 59.5" by 152" for the lower. We cut them 3" longer just to be safe. Tried out the upper one, and it was plenty long. Cut 3" off of it. Should be ok. So, we cut the lower one to the exact size. So there, they look pretty good. I'm not sure if this stuff is going to work. Need to figure out how to connect them and put slats on them. I'm kind of concerned if the material will hold rivets when going around the rollers. But, at any rate, if nothing else, I will have a nice pattern to take to the local Amish canvas guy.
Edited by littlemarv - 18 Mar 2018 at 2:19pm
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The mechanic always wins.
B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H
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littlemarv
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Joined: 10 Jun 2013
Location: Wisconsin
Points: 1826
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Posted: 18 Mar 2018 at 1:54pm |
Had a few rare hours to myself this morning. Removed the idler pulley for the draper drive belt and got that out of the way. Figured out where all the cotter pins are, and got them out. The pulley makes a nice guide for driving the big pin out for the pulley adjustment. Got that out without too much trouble. Next this bracket had to come out. Take off the big cylinder drive belt, remove all the small bolts on each end that hold the cylinder in, and out she comes. It wasn't too bad of a job at all. Last fall, I tried raising the cylinder, and on the pulley end, I twisted off some of the carriage bolts, and gave up on that. Now that I have the whole assembly out, I think I will heat up to remove, wire wheel everything, replace whats necessary, and anti sieze the heck out of everything so it cooperates in the future. Cleaned out the concave with a screwdriver, wire brush, broom, and shop vac. The concave itself is actually quite solid. It does have a tear in it, looks like a rock was the culprit. I will have to see how much an overlay will cost, cause now would sure be the time to install one. I was going to remove the ledger plate, but those bolts are threaded directly into an angle iron under the combine. I turned on one a bit and it ain't moving. I've twisted off enough bolts in my day to realize its time to stop and get a torch to heat them up. That way I can nip off the carriage bolts for the second cylinder bar hold down too. Took this picture just so I can remember which way the fork goes- it is offset. So there, now I can work on the cylinder bars, once the snow is gone and the yard firms up, I can get back there with a torch and finish disassembly. Thanks for looking.
Edited by littlemarv - 18 Mar 2018 at 1:58pm
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The mechanic always wins.
B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H
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Ryan Renko
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Edwardsville, I
Points: 2313
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Posted: 18 Mar 2018 at 7:55pm |
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Since the bearing was bad on the right side of our cylinder and the bearing was questionable on the cylinder sheave we didn't remove it by removing the right side plate. we took it all apart. you learn something new everyday! Ryan
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littlemarv
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Joined: 10 Jun 2013
Location: Wisconsin
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Posted: 21 Mar 2018 at 10:01pm |
I walked in the house after pulling the cylinder the other day and my phone rang. Here it was the lady I bought the combine from! She said "Hey, I found a can and a big part that I think go with the All-Crop, want to take a look?" Well, I just happened to be up to Dads Monday, so I swung by. Something for the collection, I'm never going to cut it open to get the decals! But, if you look at the part number of the kit, and the part numbers and description on the back, its actually for a 60. Then we went and looked at this piece in the shed. I had no idea what it was. Luckily, I had all my All Crop info with me, and just happened upon this picture- I thought maybe it was NOS by the way its crated up, but after closer inspection, not so much. Still in good shape though. I will get to try it out eventually.... I've never seen one in use. Pressure washed the cylinder. Anyone know what the rubber on the cylinder bars looked like when they were new? I just assumed these were worn out due to the rubber being gone on the edge? You can see the rubber gone on the edge of the bar on the left, and you are looking straight at the bar in the middle so you can see the thickness. Some of the bars are pretty bent, I think the machine has ingested a rock or two.
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The mechanic always wins.
B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H
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Allis dave
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Joined: 10 May 2012
Location: Northern IN
Points: 2848
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Posted: 22 Mar 2018 at 9:16am |
Doesn't look too bad to me. I have a new set from Tom Yaz at home shrink wrapped waiting to go on a 72. I can try to remember to take a picture and send to you if you want. That looks like a fun project.
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littlemarv
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Joined: 10 Jun 2013
Location: Wisconsin
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Posted: 26 Mar 2018 at 8:22pm |
Today, in a rare bout of ambition, I borrowed a torch from work. Heated up all the bolts on the ledger plate and got them all out without twisting any off- Whew! Don't see anything special about the washers? Just looks like a bolt, lockwasher, and fender washer. Or am I missing something? Torched off the other row of carriage bolts for the front concave bar, so the concave is cleaned out. Made up a cardboard pattern for a concave liner.
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The mechanic always wins.
B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H
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littlemarv
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Location: Wisconsin
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Posted: 18 Apr 2018 at 9:32pm |
We got more snow in two days this last weekend, than we have gotten all winter. We will call this one "Hibernation" I priced out a piece of 16 gauge stainless, 24" by 61". $180.00 No thank you. Went to a local junk yard, where they sell scrap by the pound. Found a piece plenty big, still has the plastic film on the one side. $40.00 SOLD. It is a little thicker, must be 14 or 12 gauge. So, next up on the tractor table downstairs.... Laid out three rows of holes. Two to bolt it down with the concave bars, and one set of holes to go around the rivet heads. I actually measured the holes out in the concave, then marked them out on the sheet. Then it dawned on me, I have one of the concave bars downstairs. Looks good. Drilled the holes 3/4" to clear the rivet heads, and the holes for the concave bars a little over 3/8" to give me a little wiggle room. I really think the holes may distort a little when the sheet gets bent into its final shape. My fab shop buddy doesn't have a roller big enough to roll a 5' piece, but he does have a press brake. So, a series of slight bends should do the same thing. I told him to leave it just a touch "open" from the pattern, so it sucks down with the concave bars. Loaded up the cylinder for the trip downstairs, so I can free up all the adjustments, and see if I can conjure something up for some cylinder bars. We will let that thaw awhile, then get it hoisted on to the table.
Edited by littlemarv - 19 Apr 2018 at 8:43pm
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The mechanic always wins.
B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H
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Dave(inMA)
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Grafton, MA
Points: 2395
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Posted: 19 Apr 2018 at 7:21pm |
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Sure enjoying your pictures and blog! It'll be fun to see this beast running after all your work. Thanks.
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WC, CA, D14, WD45
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Ryan Renko
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Edwardsville, I
Points: 2313
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Posted: 19 Apr 2018 at 7:27pm |
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I am also enjoying your pictures of your project!! Keep us updated on the progress. Ryan
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Ted J
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Joined: 05 Jul 2010
Location: La Crosse, WI
Points: 18699
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Posted: 20 Apr 2018 at 11:36pm |
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HOLY COW!! You sure have been busy! Nice to see a piece of history saved and COMPLETE revamped to ALMOST like NEW!! GREAT JOB!
I just might have to make a SPECIAL trip up and see this first hand!!
You going to try and have it ready for Hutch this year?
Give your son a high five from me!! He's worth at least 2 pizza dinners, or at least 1 STEAK and what ever he wants dinners....
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"Allis-Express"
19?? WC / 1941 C / 1952 CA / 1956 WD45 / 1957 WD45 / 1958 D-17
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littlemarv
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Location: Wisconsin
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Posted: 21 Apr 2018 at 11:24am |
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Well Ted, you will have to come to farm technology days, July 10-12. It's less than a mile from my house, and I already have a spot reserved in the "heritage iron" section! It's never going to get any closer, so I'd better take everything I have!
Taking an all crop to Hutch would be pretty tough. I do hope to tote the WC with me this year, though.
Edited by littlemarv - 21 Apr 2018 at 11:27am
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The mechanic always wins.
B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H
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littlemarv
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Joined: 10 Jun 2013
Location: Wisconsin
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Posted: 22 Apr 2018 at 9:40pm |
Talked to a fellow at the local construction company, I figured they were changing all the belting on their conveyor belts, and I was right. Grabbed a chunk of 3/8" thick belting from him one day after work. So, cut 10 strips for the cylinder bars, (2 extra just in case) Also cut a piece or the ledger plate while we were at it. A 9 year old with a utility knife cutting thick rubber belting? Well, he really wanted to try it, and we all gotta learn somehow, but we managed to make it through without any sirens or deductibles involved. Hoisted the cylinder onto the table, removed one cylinder bar and measured up all the holes so I can make new bars. They use some wicked adhesives in the body shop at work. I asked the boys over there if they thought it would hold rubber to metal in this application, and they all thought so. I see cylinder bar sets advertised for $599 plus shipping, so a few bucks for angle iron, bolts, and adhesive is well worth a try as far as I'm concerned. Actually was able to get new concave rubber bars from the nearest AGCO dealer (now an hour away). Part # 70535533, $17.26 each. They don't look much bigger than the rubber I took out, but the old ones were brittle and dry, so I may as well replace them right away.
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The mechanic always wins.
B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H
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littlemarv
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Location: Wisconsin
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Posted: 13 May 2018 at 9:13pm |
Got the concave liner back. Got some angle iron for new bars. Measured up and drilled new mounting holes. I thought they used uber unobtanium classified adhesive, but I asked a couple guys over in the body shop what to use and they all said windshield urethane, which is readily available at Advanced Auto. Got a tube and the primer. Glued the strips on and clamped the bars and let sit overnight. Out to the paint room. Bolted it all up, of course I kept the old bars, just in case. 40 holes and I only had to egg out two to make them line up. Pretty good for this guy. Warming up all the jamnuts on the adjuster bolts, the carriage bolts, even took the gauge screws out and anti seized them, so everything should come free when its time to set everything up.
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The mechanic always wins.
B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H
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CrestonM
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Joined: 08 Sep 2014
Location: Oklahoma
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Posted: 13 May 2018 at 11:15pm |
Looks great! I'm thinking you're a bit more ambitious than me! Just a tip...make sure you balance the cylinder when you get it back in. You can just add washers to the cylinder bar bolts.
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TomYaz
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Location: PA
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Posted: 18 May 2018 at 6:20am |
Wish I could see the pics....my chrome browser and IE dont show them for some reason. Nice to hear about this restore; wish I could see the results!.. I dont get on here as much anymore as I am too busy -- ...so I am late to the show---
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If its not an All-Crop, it all crap!
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littlemarv
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Location: Wisconsin
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Posted: 18 Jun 2018 at 8:40pm |
Got the concave liner in. Slid it in from the front, all the holes lined up perfect! Slid the cylinder home. Marked the slots in the rubber for the ledger plate These are the best cutters ever. I used it to drill the holes in the stainless liner, they look like they are machined when you get done. And they saw neat holes in the rubber belting. Started bolting the rubber on to the ledger plate. I didn't want to use pop rivets, cause the rubber would smush down too far before the rivets popped, I think. So I used machine screws, but after I started putting them in, I realized that the bottom has to be rather smooth. This won't work. Back to Fleet for some elevator bolts....
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The mechanic always wins.
B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H
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combinechris
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Joined: 20 Jul 2015
Location: wittenberg,Wi.
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Posted: 18 Jun 2018 at 9:59pm |
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Use split rivets on your shelling plate rubber. You can get them from Agco.
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35 combines and 15 forage harvesters. mostly allis combines and equipment.WTB 2 row cornhead for a 90
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littlemarv
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Location: Wisconsin
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Posted: 20 Jun 2018 at 4:53pm |
Need to get the carriage bolts in the back side of the right cylinder mounting plate. I can't reach them from the front. Well buddy boy, either you pick me up and stuff me in there, or I pick you up and stuff you in there. Yes, I laid some cardboard down for him! So, got that handled. Ran into some difficulty though. The cylinder is now too big. When I glued the rubber on, some hung over the outer edge of the angle iron. I didn't think much of it, I just figured it would wear with use. The rubber was hitting on the concave bars. When I lifted it up to clear there, it would hit on the top of the housing, where the tailings hood is. Plus, when I was moving it around, some of the rubber started coming off the bars. Yummy. When I made those new bars, I didn't think much of that adhesive. After the glue had set, I gave it a tug and thought "Man, that seems like it would pull off of there pretty easy." But, I thought I would give it a chance. Now I know. I suppose I guy could rivet or bolt the rubber onto the bars, but that's a side project for another time. Who knows, maybe someday I will meet somebody who does recreational vulcanizing. Well, somebody has to climb in there and put the old bars back in one by one from the front. It was up to me and Courtney. So there I was, changing bars, while Courtney helped with the documentation. O.K., back to good. I set the cylinder down on the front concave bar and zeroed my side gauges. Then, set the clearance to about 1/4", the setting for wheat. A farmer buddy of mine jokingly told me this spring that he would save me a corner of a field to try out my combine. I'm going to try and hold him to it. So, I don't have "gentle rubber on rubber threshing" yet, but I can at least try it this way. On to the canvases. Freed up the tensioners on the bottom, they were stuck from sitting around. Put my belting in, just to see how it fits. Looks like the measurements are good, but I really don't think this material is going to work. I think tomorrow I may have to visit a nearby Amish canvas shop. I stopped at a local "pop up camper recanvassing specialist", but all he has is rubberized vinyl, not true canvas. I wonder if I can just buy the material and put metal or plastic slats on it. It would be easier to order a set already made, but for me just tinkering around with the combine its just a little too hard on the wallet. If I had acres of crop to get in later this summer I could certainly justify it. Thanks for looking!
Edited by littlemarv - 20 Jun 2018 at 4:56pm
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The mechanic always wins.
B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H
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Ryan Renko
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Edwardsville, I
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Posted: 20 Jun 2018 at 8:24pm |
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I enjoy following your project and all the great pictures. Keep moving ahead and it will be out in the field before you know it!! BTW, I was a little skeptical about gluing the rubber on the bars but you never know and we all learn something new everyday. Keep up the good work! Ryan
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acd21man
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Posted: 20 Jun 2018 at 10:47pm |
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I’m not sure what the canvas was pieced together with when new but why couldn’t one take what they splice a baler belt with and just put them across the belt I know there would be quite a few but it would sure hold I would Think
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2 wd 45,2 D-17 diesel/gas 3 pt, 220,d21, 4020,2 4430s used daily http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCudh8Xz9_rZHhUC3YNozupw
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CrestonM
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Location: Oklahoma
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Posted: 21 Jun 2018 at 11:19am |
If you want an excellent quality set of drapers that will probably outlast you, contact Steve Molsted at Colby Canvas Company in Colby, KS. He makes rubberized drapers, and they are superb. I would never go back to straight canvas after seeing these.
Also, how were the bars held on originally? I threw a bar and a half on adjacent bars this season, and now my cylinder is off-balance. I'm thinking of just peeling the rest of the worn-out bars off if I can, since I don't need them for wheat anyway. By the way...your "old" bars are about twice as good as mine!
acd21man...I've thought about that as well, but once you've done it the other way a couple times, it's a piece of cake. The hardest part for me is getting the reel up and out of the way. Usually I just take it off, so it's not hitting my head and back.
Edited by CrestonM - 21 Jun 2018 at 11:22am
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littlemarv
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Posted: 29 Jun 2018 at 11:27pm |
Amazing what a little rubbing compound can do. Might have to turn the kids loose with the waxmaster... Finished up reassembling the drive side of the cylinder- fork back in, idler pulley on, belts reinstalled. I almost shat myself when I realized I pulled the cylinder out and then the big belt fell down. Now I've got the cylinder back in and the belt is not in place! Luckily, I turned it sideways and it just slides in between the pulley and the tailings elevator. Gave everything a shot of grease. I was going to count the zerks as I went, but I got distracted after like six. Pretty sure I got most of them, and every one took grease. 2 tubes of grease and an hour later, done. Also put some motor oil on all the non greasable linkages and such. Used a long prybar to turn the PTO shaft. The slip clutch on the separator drive is slipping. The grain drag and straw rack are connected, and the big upper pulley is pretty hard to turn. I suspect the grain drag chain is the culprit. I wonder if I should tighten up the spring on the slip clutch for now, so I can get things moving and lube the chains, then back it off again? I am also going to loosen the drag chains as well, see if that helps. Ran out of daylight today. What is this peephole for? Don't see anything in the manual about it? Here is a picture of the slip clutches, just in case anybody spots anything amiss, that may be causing the slippage. Ordered some material from the Amish canvas shop. Should be here next week. My woodworking neighbor had a white oak board he ripped up into slats for me. SO, I don't have the canvases yet, but tomorrow I hope to hook up the WC and bring the old girl to life! Thanks for looking.
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The mechanic always wins.
B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H
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CrestonM
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Posted: 30 Jun 2018 at 12:14am |
DO NOT try to turn that separator if something is binding! That will most likely lead to disaster, as the slip clutch is slipping for a reason. Now, if you greased the clutch very much, that could also be a culprit. An old farmer "in the field" fix is to throw some dirt in the clutch, but that's not the preferred way.
When you're greasing the machine, if you can, try to turn the shafts while you're pumping grease. You can get more in the bearings and bushings that way. When combining, make sure to stop and grease at least once halfway through the day unless you're just cutting just a little bit. (about 2 or 3 acres). Since you say the grain drag drive sheave is hard to turn, I'd be looking hard at the rack and chain. Make sure the chain is tight enough but not too tight. I wouldn't loosen it up like you say unless it's just unbearably tight. In fact, I'd probably tighten it if it's sagging much. When you tighten it, the chain will actually raise up off the floor. If that gets you going, you know the chain is catching on the floor somewhere. Find where it binds, correct the issue, and then let the chain back down. I've seen the chains run way too loose, and also some ran as tight as a piano wire. Both are detrimental. If you are looking at the chain from the left side of the machine, I usually let the chain sag about 1/2" or so. Just so the slats drag on the floor and run on the wooden guides. Sometimes the chain can stretch more on one side than the other, just try to get a happy medium between chain tension and having both sprockets on the driven shaft at the left side of the combine parallel.
Yep...a little wax will really make that old paint shine like a mirror! I've heard lots of guys say the durability of the old lead-based paint will never be replicated by the new paints, and I believe it.
I'd say for those canvases...make sure you have a lot of staples and rivets in those wooden slats. I think Allis stopped using that style sometime in the early '40s. If you don't have all the staples and rivets, straw will get lodged between the slats and canvas. It isn't only unsightly, it's also tedious pulling it all out at the end of the season. The slats need to be pretty thin (maybe 1/2" thick or less) or they will bind at the top of the header when they go around the drive roller.
That "peephole" is useful for cleaning out the auger trough, and that's all I use it for. I guess if you plug the auger up somehow you can use it to clean that out and get the auger turning, but I always just use my leaf blower to blow air through there at the end of the season with the machine running and the wind valves wide open. It gets a lot more grain out of the combine that way, as the augers do not run too close to the bottoms of the troughs like in newer combines.
Out of curiosity...do you have a manual? If not, I advise getting one. It will be your best friend. It will show the number of Alemites and their location, so you know you're getting everything greased. Some are in places you can't easily access and are in places you might not think to look. I always tell everyone on these combines, wherever something moves, there's an Alemite.
Edited by CrestonM - 30 Jun 2018 at 8:12am
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littlemarv
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Posted: 30 Jun 2018 at 7:45pm |
Hooked up the WC and gave it a try- Of course, after the video, I had to move it to make sure the reel works, and try and shoot a couple pictures. I got a new phone, so I want to try and work with some pictures a little bit. So there, that's a good feeling. One step closer...
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The mechanic always wins.
B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H
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CrestonM
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Posted: 30 Jun 2018 at 8:19pm |
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Did you find out what was binding?
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littlemarv
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Posted: 30 Jun 2018 at 8:48pm |
No, I did not. It started up nice and smooth, and I was watching the big pulley while I let the clutch out. Not sure why it slipped when I turned it by hand. Does a fellow just use motor oil to lubricate the drag chains and the other chains? What type of chain is that actually called?
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The mechanic always wins.
B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H
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Ryan Renko
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Posted: 30 Jun 2018 at 8:51pm |
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Any type of lubrication is better then none. I used spray chain lube because it was easy to use. Ryan
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CrestonM
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Posted: 01 Jul 2018 at 12:11pm |
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I use used motor oil. It’s detachable link chain. It comes in different sizes, stamped on the links.
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