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ecclap 
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 Topic: Fred Wilke 1933 WC
Posted: 15 Dec 2016 at 9:22am |
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Does anyone have closeup pictures of the '33 WC that I assume is still owned by Fred Wilke? There are a couple pics floating around on the internet but I'm trying to figure out what F&H rear wheels this tractor has on it. Any help would be appreciated!
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CALEBnOK
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Posted: 15 Dec 2016 at 11:09am |
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Looks to have 24" f&h round spokes with f&h weights
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ecclap
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Posted: 15 Dec 2016 at 11:15am |
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I believe that tractor is the one in Iowa with black wheels. I think the Wilke tractor has orange wheels with 24" spokes as well but they look different than the regular WC rear round spokes.
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Fred in Pa
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Posted: 15 Dec 2016 at 11:33am |
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I do engine work for Fred .I will call over there and have his get on here .
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He who dies with the most toys is,
nonetheless ,still dead.
If all else fails ,Read all that is PRINTED.
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Skyhighballoon(MO)
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Posted: 15 Dec 2016 at 3:24pm |
My pics are from like 2007 when I visited but here's all I have. Mike Update - if you are only looking at the rears I don't have any good ones. This sliver in this pic is all I have. Also resizing directly on the Photobucket site doesn't seem to be working. Mike 
Edited by Skyhighballoon(MO) - 15 Dec 2016 at 4:43pm
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1981 Gleaner F2 Corn Plus w 13' flex
1968 Gleaner EIII w 10' & 330
1969 180 gas
1965 D17 S-IV gas
1963 D17 S-III gas
1956 WD45 gas NF PS
1956 All-Crop 66 Big Bin
303 wire baler, 716H, 712H mowers
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ecclap
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Posted: 15 Dec 2016 at 4:00pm |
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Thanks! If you can't get them to upload, I can message you my email address. I've been cataloging French and Hecht wheels for the past several years and the rear wheels on that tractor don't look like the normal WC rears which have the casting number HC46A.
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CALEBnOK
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Posted: 15 Dec 2016 at 5:51pm |
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What all F&h wheels do you have cataloged so far?
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ecclap
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Posted: 15 Dec 2016 at 6:28pm |
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I've cataloged hundreds of wheels so far across all tractor manufacturers both steel wheels and wheels for rubber tires. I also have some printed information from aftermarket companies selling F&H wheels. If you have any specific questions, let me know.
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Bill Long
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Posted: 15 Dec 2016 at 7:34pm |
Let me see what I have on file. Looks like you get a peek of the reaR wheel. Looks to be Orange. Good Luck! Bill Long ps: From NY GOTO 2004 - Fred Wilke, Bill Long, Rick Walten |
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CALEBnOK
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Posted: 15 Dec 2016 at 8:02pm |
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Id love to see your cataloged material. We have a ton of F&H wheels. Are you just doing tractors or are you including threshing machines plows etc. also?
I might have some stuff for you to add.
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mintenfarmer
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Posted: 15 Dec 2016 at 9:06pm |
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Why does that wc have the manifold and carb on the right side
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ecclap
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Posted: 15 Dec 2016 at 9:19pm |
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I'm in the process of finding current examples of all the tractor wheels. The info I have right now is a mix match of current and old pictures, tire company catalogs, and application charts for aftermarket vendors selling wheels, rims etc. There are many typos in the vintage printed material so I'm trying to verify each wheel with a current example. I've been working at this off and on for years and it's a daunting task, to say the least. I've got a good handle on most of the common wheels for tractors and I have a good understanding of the way the French and Hecht wheels are numbered. I'm interested in anything F&H related but info is hard to come by for implements. F&H made wheels for virtually everything that rolled that wasn't an automobile or pickup so there are many thousands of wheels out there. Do you strictly have Allis stuff or other makes too? I'd be interested in anything you may have.
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CALEBnOK
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Posted: 15 Dec 2016 at 9:44pm |
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We have all makes of tractors. One thing i find interesting about F&h part #'s is that it seems the early wheels and especially implement wheels seem to be an H### part # instead of HC###.
My Reeves steam lift plow was built 1912 and earlier and it has F&h wheels like this.
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MNLonnie
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Posted: 15 Dec 2016 at 9:48pm |
 mintenfarmer wrote:
Why does that wc have the manifold and carb on the right side |
The first 29 WC tractors had Waukesha engines in them. The first 96 B's also used them and the intake/exhaust is opposite on a Waukesha.
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Waukesha B, B, IB, G, styled WF, D15, 615 backhoe, 2-Oliver OC3's, 4 Ford Model T's, 3 Model A Fords, AV8 Coupe, AV8 Roadster, 1933 Ford Wrecker
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MNLonnie
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Posted: 15 Dec 2016 at 9:59pm |
ecclap wrote:
I believe that tractor is the one in Iowa with black wheels. Â I think the Wilke tractor has orange wheels with 24" spokes as well but they look different than the regular WC rear round spokes. |
What do you think looks different, is it the center where the lug nuts are?
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Waukesha B, B, IB, G, styled WF, D15, 615 backhoe, 2-Oliver OC3's, 4 Ford Model T's, 3 Model A Fords, AV8 Coupe, AV8 Roadster, 1933 Ford Wrecker
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ecclap
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Posted: 15 Dec 2016 at 10:05pm |
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As far as I can tell, the earliest hub series just has an "H" prefix. The next series was "HA". Many of the steel wheels developed in the 20's have "HA" prefix hubs. The "HC" prefix hubs start around 1931. Most of the first wheels for rubber tires have low number "HC" hubs like HC2 (Allis UC), HC3 (John Deere GP), etc. The hub casting numbers are just that, hub casting numbers. The same hub could be used on multiple rims sizes. Hubs that have close numbers were developed around the same time. Letters were used after the hub number to indicate changes in the foundry pattern. The letters followed the alphabet so A, B, C etc. would be the order of pattern revisions. The common Allis WC hub is HC46A. There was probably an HC46 produced but sometimes they had to revise the pattern right away and some hubs didn't make it to regular production. The 1933 WC's look to have a different wheel hub than the HC46A so I'm trying to figure out what the casting number is.
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ecclap
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Posted: 15 Dec 2016 at 10:08pm |
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There is no "step" in the casting for the wheel weight to rest on like there is on the HC46A hub. The hub looks closer to the HC119 steel wheel hub. There is another good pic of a '33 with this type of hub in the Norm Swinford Allis bible.
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MNLonnie
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Posted: 15 Dec 2016 at 11:15pm |
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To me they look like HC26A's which I always considered to be John Deere wheels. Similar to Allis wheels but no lip. They are way more common, easier to find in good condition and they bolt right on.
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Waukesha B, B, IB, G, styled WF, D15, 615 backhoe, 2-Oliver OC3's, 4 Ford Model T's, 3 Model A Fords, AV8 Coupe, AV8 Roadster, 1933 Ford Wrecker
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ecclap
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Posted: 15 Dec 2016 at 11:24pm |
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HC26A wheels are very common because they were designed and used for the Farmall F-20's and Regulars. With somewhere around 150,000 F-20's built, they are the most plentiful 24" F&H round spokes. There is also an HC26A with an 8 X 28" rim that you sometimes see on WC's but they were also designed for the Farmalls. Deere 6 bolt wheels include the HC3 and HC128A's. There are slight differences in all of these wheel hubs to accommodate the different offsets needed by each tractor. In short, there were no "generic" wheels meant to fit multiple brands of tractors. Each wheel was designed by F&H to a set of specs from the manufacturers. They technically will all fit, but they never would have been sold or installed on the wrong tractor back in the day, unless by mistake. One of my main goals in doing all of this research was to sort out exactly which wheel belonged with each tractor.
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MNLonnie
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Posted: 16 Dec 2016 at 7:25am |
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Good information, thank you.
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Waukesha B, B, IB, G, styled WF, D15, 615 backhoe, 2-Oliver OC3's, 4 Ford Model T's, 3 Model A Fords, AV8 Coupe, AV8 Roadster, 1933 Ford Wrecker
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ecclap
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Posted: 16 Dec 2016 at 8:24am |
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The unique thing about the WC wheels is that they were actually designed to be reversible. This is the reason they have that ledge cast into the back side of the hub for the wheel weight to ride up against in the narrow or plowing position. The WC was designed with rubber tires in mind and the F-20's and Deere tractors were not. 24" round spokes will not go onto these tractors in the narrow position without using a spacer to set the wheel out so it won't hit the brake drums. The WC was designed in such a way that there was ample clearance with the wheels in the narrow position.
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Unit3
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Posted: 16 Dec 2016 at 12:22pm |
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LuVerne's WC#19 does not have threaded holes to screw in front cult brackets. Does this one have them?
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2-8070FWA PS/8050PS/7080/7045PS/200/D15-II/2-WD45/WD/3-WC/UC/C
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CALEBnOK
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Posted: 16 Dec 2016 at 6:19pm |
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24" wheels on the UC's wont clear in the narrow position either. Thats why they went to 28's later
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ecclap
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Posted: 16 Dec 2016 at 7:12pm |
CALEBnOK wrote:
24" wheels on the UC's wont clear in the narrow position either. Thats why they went to 28's later |
You're exactly right. There was also an early 8 X 28 UC wheel with the HC2 hub that was non-reversible. The later reversible 8 X 28 has the HC377A hub. 36" round spokes were also reversible if you didn't mind ditching the fenders.
Edited by ecclap - 16 Dec 2016 at 7:13pm
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Wilkenuts
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Posted: 20 Dec 2016 at 1:26pm |
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Wilkenuts
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Posted: 20 Dec 2016 at 1:28pm |
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If anyone needs pictures emailed to them just send me a message at bjw@wilkelaser.com or if you would like to talk to Fred (during the day) feel free to give him a call at 717-632-5937
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ecclap
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Posted: 20 Dec 2016 at 1:44pm |
Wilkenuts wrote:
If anyone needs pictures emailed to them just send me a message at bjw@wilkelaser.com or if you would like to talk to Fred (during the day) feel free to give him a call at 717-632-5937 |
Wow! Really cool. Thanks for the pics. My theory on these early wheels seems to be correct. HC46 would have been the original wheel produced by F&H for the first run of WC's and likely some pre-production tractors. These wheels lack the cast-in ridge for the wheel weight to ride up against. When F&H altered a foundry pattern they added a letter to the end of the casting number. So HC46 turned into HC46A with the casting changed to accommodate the wheel weight. It's likely that Allis may have spec'ed this or F&H came up with the idea and implemented it with approval from Allis engineering. The HC46 wheels have to be very rare, as they would have only been used on very early production. I also have reason to believe that the earliest front wheels may have been 16" wheels similar to the U/UC fronts. Thank you so much for posting. I may be in contact with you to get more info.
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ecclap
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Posted: 20 Dec 2016 at 1:53pm |
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Another thing to note is that when the casting changed, you can see how the original location of the casting number would have been a problem with the ledge cast-in, so "HC46A" and "F&H" were then moved to the inside of the hub in between the spokes.
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ecclap
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Posted: 21 Dec 2016 at 11:05am |
Here is a snapshot of the picture from Norm Swinford's book. Although this photo isn't dated, it looks like the original HC46 wheels may have been used into 1934 by the looks of this tractor. This poor picture quality doesn't show it very well, but these wheels clearly don't have the cast-in wheel weight ledge in the hubs. This photo is what gave me the idea that there must have been an earlier version of the WC wheel which has now been confirmed by the Wilke tractor and pictures.
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David Maddux
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Posted: 21 Dec 2016 at 11:31am |
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This is the kind of research I love to see shared on this site. The more we can learn now is easier than it will be as time passes.
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