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Some military A-C 3500 diesel info

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Butch(OH) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Butch(OH) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Some military A-C 3500 diesel info
    Posted: 01 Jun 2010 at 9:50am
Our 220 is now para military as we completed the swap of a surplus 3500 this weekend. The Armed sevices are retiring a 60KW gen set that was powered by the Allis 3500 engine and we will be seeing LOTS of them as surplus coming up along with all the spare parts and engines, there are a few on Ebay as I type this. Thought that some would be interested in just what you get and what needs to be swapped out. I had talked with David Ferguson about the engines as they are marked 3500 but are very late production, mine is dated 1985. David told me that the last Harvey engines were purchased by the miltary as he saw a host of them at the plant to be shipped. First thing you do is get rid of enything electric, all 24V. The military did not want the latest fuel systems nor an intercooler so you get a stanadyne rotory pump and a pipe from the turbo to the intake.  Internaly is a differant story as we  found out when we had to take ours down further than planned. What you get basicaly is an  8000 series engine on the inside that looks like a D-21 or 220 engine on the outside.  I also learned about Army repair standards, some of you who hav served may be able to add but the Army has only one repair standard, they call it T-M or to us layman, "as new"  Our engine carried a tag and paperwork that said it was reconditoned at Fort Bliss Tx. As far as I could tell the only thing in our engine that was not brand new was the block and misc parts like filter heads, barckets etc. The head, crankshaft, rods (1 3/4 pin), sleeves, pistons, cam, rockers, manifold, crank driven oil pump, turbo, Stanadyne pump were all new, not reconditioned and of the latest designs by Allis or other Mfg. We found al this out because of the changes needed to bolt it in the 220. One of them being the front motor plate. To change it requires a lot of dissasembly, (Reminds me, you need to buy the entire overhual gasket kit too). You do not want to purchase one of these engines for an engine-less tractor believe me. There is a lot of smalls to move over filter heads, water pump, front cover, bell housing flywheel, we have a couple wheel borrow loads of stuff removed form the Military engine and the old one looks like a stripped core long block. What will you get? who knows but if it is a reman from Fort Bliss they do it right, at least mine is. We got ours running yesterday and it runs like a spotted arsed ape. LOTs of power, zero blow by BUT the governing in the pump is worthless for a farm tractor As I was pre warned by a couple experts. We hope to combine the wet end of the new pump with the governor from our old pump but the pump shop will have the say there. All in all I think we did all right compared to fixing our old one which was worn out plus had been froze up at some point. ( I mised the JB weld on the block and head when we looked it over.)  I bought our engine for about the same price as  an overhaul kit, I think we did alright. May be the answer for some other tractors that otherwise would get parted out.
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Jordan(OH) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jordan(OH) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2010 at 10:15am
If the military front cover is like the 8000 front cover, its does not have to be changed to work, it can be adapted.  What was the HP rating of the engine?  Does it have the Bosch injectors?
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Butch(OH) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Butch(OH) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2010 at 10:35am
Jorden, few know less about an 8000 series than me. The injectors look exactly like the ones that were in our 220. I can get a picture if that helps. The reason we did not use the cover was the military damper/pulley was not for the correct width belts for the 220 and we could not install the 220 pulley on the original cover because there is a raised portion on the cover that hit the 220 dampner. Had we machined that raised portion off the cover then the next problem was the timing pointer was in a differant place and thus worthless. Had to remove both covers to switch the front motor plate so it was a matter of swapping them, no biggie.  The original military spec was for 150 HP at 1800 RPM. A dyno sheet acompanies the rebuilds from Bliss. We have not loaded it other than climbing a couple pretty steep grades taking it home and it realy throws some coal when called upon for power, lots more than the oriiginal motor/ pump ever did.  With 150 HP at 1800 Id have to guess 170 or so at 2350?? Just a wild guess. We hope to keep the same delivery settings just for fun and get tractor governing by combining the pumps.
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skipwelte View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skipwelte Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2010 at 12:55pm
I worked with an older gen set engine for a D21, lots to change, cannt remember what all but there was a lot of stuff to deal with.  Front plate, flywheel and flywheel housing and like Butch said those gen set have a min/max govenor which is not varible like on a tractor engine. You get a lot of real good parts, to bad the alt and starter are 24volt.  Most of those are low houred, a lot have been reconditioned at a low hour rate.  The miliary doesnt  repair much, mostly replace with new parts and send the old stuff to the supplier for rebuild.  If you get one thats been overseas its probably had the crap ran out of it, one from the continental US for the most part has just lite duty.  And the miliary rebuilds-some are good, some are not.  We had an IH bus that we put 2 goverment rebuit short blocks in, both of em scored cylinder walls.  They got the overbores to tight, the second one that scored I pulled the head, honed the cylinder smooth as I could, put in a new piston and thew it back together.  That one ran until we had to crush the bus, as the gas tank was outside the frame rails, all of a sudden that was deamed unsafe and had to be scrapped.     HTH
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Calvin Schmidt View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Calvin Schmidt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2010 at 1:08pm
Are the rumours true that the 1800 rpm genset engines are not balanced the same as the same engine in higher rpm applications (tarctor) and will vibrate at higher rpms?
I have a 670T 100 kw genset engine that may find its way into a 210.
Nothing is impossible if it is properly financed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ac45 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2010 at 2:54pm

Are theses gen set engines set up with piston cooling jets?, cant you just take your injection pump from the 210 and use it? Would probbaly have to swap the drive shafts and maybe front drive gear?? Where is the location of the oil filters and oil coolers on these engines, is it similiart to an 8000 series . i thought the block casting changed with the later series  from the 3500 series engine as far as loaction of oil coolers and filters, and an addition of a machined boss for a block heater,  Is your dipstick still the same location or did it change sides??

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Butch(OH) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Butch(OH) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2010 at 3:38pm
Originally posted by Calvin Schmidt Calvin Schmidt wrote:

Are the rumours true that the 1800 rpm genset engines are not balanced the same as the same engine in higher rpm applications (tarctor) and will vibrate at higher rpms?
I have a 670T 100 kw genset engine that may find its way into a 210.
Cant say for sure about balancing. I manipulated the governor on ours and had it up to 2250 and it is smooth. The gen set fly wheel was heavy times 3!


Edited by Butch(OH) - 01 Jun 2010 at 3:50pm
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Butch(OH) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Butch(OH) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2010 at 3:49pm
I dont now about late vs early externaly as the extent of my 8000 series knowledge is I know what one looks like. Here is a link to one like mine on a current  ebay auction with enough pics to answer most questions. While plowing this past spring I had to remove the check ball from the return line to allow the governor ring parts to get back to the tank, so the pump needed to go to a shop too. We will be combining out two pumps into one unit. If your pump is good, move it over. Other changes you ask about I dont have a clue, externally my new block with a 1985 build date is the same as the original other than very minor things like bolt holes etc. They are marked 3500, not 670T. Sorry I cant  answer your questions better I am just not that familiar with the later tractors.  http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Allis-Chalmers-3500-Diesel-Engine-OveHhauled-Turbo-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem5ad93f9c1aQQitemZ390191881242QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DarrylinWA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2010 at 6:43am
I have a 1986 Generator motor in my Hot Farm  D 21 that I have been running the last 8 years at 3000 RPM. I put a bigger 4 roller pump on itm bigger injectorsm and lines. Am getting about 300 plus horse and run in 6th gear at about 11 plus milres per hr. Moto had 1086 hrs when we put it in and yes ALOT of work switching all out. I do not have any vibration on it and have had no problems. I know some people dont like when, but I have had 0 problems.
 
Take care, Darryl
B 10,4211 Simplicity, 2 Series 1 D 21's, 2 Series 2 D 21's, 2, 220's,220FWA Serial #1,#7, 210, 7030, 7050,4W220,190 XT, 46 MM UTU, 89 Peterbilt EX Custom, ALLIS EXPRESS
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kevin(Alabama) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2010 at 8:20am

i have one of the 60kw gen sets.  It purs like a kitten, I pull  my grain storage system with it. I did have some trouble with the injector punp and had it rebuilt it is a stanadine but is differant than the ones on farm use engines. I would think twice about scarping a good gen set just for the motor. They are three phase or single phase high voltage (440) or low voltage (120, 208-240). With the times we are seeing now it may be handy to have one around.

"I would die a thousand deaths before I would betray a friend."...Sam Davis, Nov. 27, 1863.....DEO VINDICE
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