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modirt 
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Location: Missouri
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 Posted: 04 Apr 2019 at 7:01pm |
BTW, I think we have the drawbar issue worked out, but if not, I'd be tempted to go this route......
https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/Allis-Chalmers-D15_Drawbar-Yoke-Assembly_232074.html
Interesting that the drawbar parts number it is shown to replace on the D15 is NOT the standard SC drawbar. It is the drawbar for the HD SC hitch for the rice tractor.....this one.....have seen at least one price quote for drawbar alone of around $230.....or some such thing. Same one is used for the D14, D15 and D17 kits. That should do it!
I have looked and studied and cannot for the life of me see where those two vertical hanger support straps would attach to. On my D15, there isn't anything there.
Does anyone have this HD rice hitch or has anyone ever seen one?
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lentsch
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Joined: 10 Feb 2011
Location: Glencoe,Mn.
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Posted: 04 Apr 2019 at 7:43pm |
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I had problems with my D15 with factory 3 point as well. Local welding shop built me a new bracket (as others did) but I still had problems with the bolts coming loose. Finally the threads were about shot from the bouncing of a 300 hundred gallon sprayer so I drilled them out and used metric bolts which were only slightly bigger than the original bolts. I also built a bracket using the 3 bolts around the PTO shaft extending down to the drawbar frame and welded and bolted it-really a simple fix but hard to explain. May post pictures later if anybody is interested. This repair was made well over 20 years ago and has never given me problems again despite still pulling that sprayer and a lot of other things.
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WD,D15,190XT,7000,8010x2,7060,8070
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modirt
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Posted: 05 Apr 2019 at 6:45am |
 lentsch wrote:
I had problems with my D15 with factory 3 point as well. Local welding shop built me a new bracket (as others did) but I still had problems with the bolts coming loose. Finally the threads were about shot from the bouncing of a 300 hundred gallon sprayer so I drilled them out and used metric bolts which were only slightly bigger than the original bolts. I also built a bracket using the 3 bolts around the PTO shaft extending down to the drawbar frame and welded and bolted it-really a simple fix but hard to explain. May post pictures later if anybody is interested. This repair was made well over 20 years ago and has never given me problems again despite still pulling that sprayer and a lot of other things. |
I would be interested in the pictures. Both brackets.......one under the tractor being harder to get good clear pictures of.
It seems many....if not most all.....of the home solution repairs includes vertical straps to support the weight of the drawbar. The HD SC drawbar for the rice tractor included them....
When you realize the bolts running fore and aft are only 4 inches apart, that is a lot of leverage force working on the casting. Mine broke the first time in a "thin" spot as it looped under the torsion bar.
But as for those vertical straps, there isn't a good, solid place to bolt them to......so most seem to have integrated it into the top link plate........some going so far as to replace the top link plate with one they made. Almost all the solutions I posted photos of that had these vertical straps did it that way.
Edited by modirt - 05 Apr 2019 at 6:51am
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modirt
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Posted: 05 Apr 2019 at 6:46am |
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Also curious to know if the bolts working loose and drawbar support failures is an issue with SC tractors as well.....or just confined to the factory 3 points?
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DrAllis
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Posted: 05 Apr 2019 at 7:26am |
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Can't say I've ever seen those four bolts work loose on a snap-coupler drawbar. They were BOLTS, not studs with nuts.
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Marlyn nwia
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Posted: 05 Apr 2019 at 10:51am |
after all the discussion regarding the weakness of the factory 3pt on a D15 II; should I dare to mount a recently purchased 360 lb. four wheeled hay rake? I will be raking very rough terrain, water ways, road ditches etc.
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DrAllis
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Posted: 05 Apr 2019 at 12:03pm |
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If you do, I'd make sure the nuts/bolts are all TIGHT !!!!
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JoeO(C-MO)
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Posted: 06 Apr 2019 at 9:30am |
Edited by JoeO(C-MO) - 17 Jun 2019 at 9:27pm
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D10 III, D15 II 3 pt, D15 II SC, 170 Gas w/shuttle, 175 Diesel UI ROPS, 185 w ROPS. AC 653 w/6 way blade, ROPS
AC 615 Ind. WD45 running/Parts.
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lentsch
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Posted: 06 Apr 2019 at 8:08pm |
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Will try to get picture of my fix tomorrow-Thanks for your patience.
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WD,D15,190XT,7000,8010x2,7060,8070
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lentsch
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Posted: 07 Apr 2019 at 6:54pm |
 This is my temporary fix that turned into a 20+ year fix. Sorry about the cockeyed picture-my first time posting a picture. 
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WD,D15,190XT,7000,8010x2,7060,8070
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modirt
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Posted: 24 Apr 2019 at 10:36am |
For those wondering.......here is the final outcome of the hitch issue.
It has been converted back to a Snap Coupler setup, using hitch parts from Cross Manufacturing, including a new drawbar.
This setup retains the use of drawbar or 3 point arms with no conversions needed, including the original lift arms (lugs). While a far cry from what ought to be or should have been, it is what it is. Note this setup also uses a rub bar bracket that eliminates the sway chains, which along with everything else on the factory 3 point, was IMHO, flimsy beyond belief. The 3 point lift arms being not much more robust than what might be found on some large garden tractors.....and about half as beefy as what are found on some modern era compact tractors....half the size and hp of this otherwise great little D15.
But at any rate, this will enable the tractor to resume work.......
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modirt
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Posted: 24 Apr 2019 at 10:52am |
Epilogue on the factory 3 point........
I posted a while back that the bracket had been dropped off with another welder to get a quote and thoughts. Next thing I knew, I got a call to tell me it was done.
Both legs had been brazed on. I quizzed the guy who did it and this is what I was told.....
Not much, if any difference between brazing rod and nickle rod.....both being soft metals with some flex to them. I have concerns about the strength of the weld.
A better way to do this might have been to place the entire casting in some type of forge to get both the legs and casting glowing red hot, then use an arc welder on the cracks to essentially melt and fuse the casting.....then while still hot....bury the whole thing in hot sand to slow down the rate of cooling. Once cooled, it would then have been critical to mill all four legs to return them to dead flat so when bolted back into place, all 4 would get the same load.
Note this casting had been welded before. Likely as not, all 4 legs were NOT left flush, so when bolted up......two of the legs were put into a bind and subject to tension and easily snapped at the first little stress put on them. That then put a lot of stress on the two remaining bolts.......and amid all this, if any of the bolts had worked loose and were being "worked", that also means you are "working" the holes in the transmission casting......so nothing ever bolts up tight again.
Related to this, is the fact that cast iron parts of this type have great strength in compression......but little if any if flexed. If at any time, one or more of the bolts holding them in place work loose, this allows flexing, so they snap. If you have one of these castings, and it remains intact, it would be critical to check these bolts on a frequent basis to make sure they are tight.
So what became of the factory 3 point parts? I built a little wooden coffin and have them all boxed up and saved in case the next guy wants to convert it back.
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modirt
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Posted: 24 Apr 2019 at 11:03am |
Lastly, considering all the options I could find.......including the Cross conversions.......not of them look to hot to me. The Cross hitch is held together with bolts.......at least 5 or so beyond the studs or bolts used to hold the hitch brackets to the tractor frame. Too many moving parts for my taste.
What is needed is some type of after market hitch that mimics what I see on a D17 series 4. Basically what is found on a host of similar sized and rated tractors.
This is the drawbar support frame for my Ford 5610............in my mind, a far better drawbar support assembly than anything I found for the D15's........the Ginger Tractor being the best of the lot........
So in this setup, instead of the drawbar being held up by a U shaped strap over the drawbar.....held up by two bolts.......and kept from swinging by a strap over the strap.....and held in place by two bolts........drawbar is sandwiched between two have plates with just a pair of hitch pins to keep it from swinging. Something like this ought to have been welded in place for the drawbar hanger.....vs all those straps and bolts.
So when you after market fabricators get going on this, please consider doing it this way!
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modirt
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Posted: 24 Apr 2019 at 11:05am |
Ginger tractor hitch for review.......note.....among other things, it has vertical straps from the frame to support the vertical loads of a heavy drawbar to reduce the leverage on the four bolts holding the drawbar support brackets up.
Some type of vertical straps of this type would seem to be essential to any long term fix of this hitch.
Edited by modirt - 24 Apr 2019 at 11:08am
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modirt
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Posted: 24 Apr 2019 at 11:13am |
Lastly.....since I don't live THAT far away, to assure I was getting what I wanted, when hunting down the Cross parts, I decided to go to the source to make sure I got what I was looking for.
This is what the source inventory looks like.......
And spin out rims on the other side of the room......
For reference, rims for the D15 cost $275 each...........
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modirt
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Posted: 24 Apr 2019 at 11:27am |
One last thing.......
When I was quizzing the welder about his repair job, I also asked if it would be possible to fabricate and weld a replacement bracket up from steel. Response was........yes, it would likely be possible......but would be expensive.
The next person time a person responds to a request as to how much something might cost........with "would be expensive".......I may lose it.
I have gotten that at least 3 or 4 times with this casting alone, and have yet to get a number from anyone. Expensive???? Is that $200 or $2,000?????
I even got that from a salesman at a tire shop the other day. Pair of Firestone rear tractor tires.......30 inch tires. So I ask him.......those tractor tires........"about how much would those cost"?????
Response was......."can't say for certain, but they would be expensive". WT@#$%^&***&^%%$%^^#!!!!!!!!!!
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chaskaduo
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Posted: 24 Apr 2019 at 6:09pm |
I hate that to. I tell them "well I can't do expensive, so I'll have to check for some one else." That usually brings em back to reality. Usually they are fishing to see how desperate a person is. If you show desperation the price starts in the clouds. Good to hear you got you Allis up to snuff and rearing to go.  Quando omni flunkus, moritati
Edited by chaskaduo - 24 Apr 2019 at 6:10pm
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1938 B, 79 Dynamark 11/36 6spd, 95 Weed-Eater 16hp, 2010 Bolens 14hp
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modirt
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Posted: 24 Apr 2019 at 8:30pm |
I guess my issue is with vague, non descriptive responses. Expensive isn't a number.....its a relative concept. If I ask someone how far is it......"quite a ways" or "farther than you might think" are not answers. About 100 miles is an answer.
Example.....I was told the spin out rims were "expensive". Come to find out they were $275 each. Compared to mucking around trying to patch weld rusted out rims, that didn't sound bad. That decision took all of 10 seconds for me. For someone else scrimping pennies who has a welder and knows how to use it, perhaps $275 is "expensive"? But at least is is a number to work with. All I need is the number. "Expensive" is not a number. 
BTW, it took me 3 tries and 30 seconds of badgering, but I finally got the tire salesman to give me a number on the Firestones. Ballpark of $800 each.
OK! So about $1600 to $1800 for a set? Yes. OK........that does sound "expensive"!
Edited by modirt - 24 Apr 2019 at 8:36pm
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Tracy Martin TN
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Posted: 24 Apr 2019 at 9:46pm |
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Are the rails on the rims, welded like factory or welded inside of rim and edge of rails towards wheel center? Tracy
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No greater gift than healthy grandkids!
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modirt
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Posted: 25 Apr 2019 at 7:30am |
Tracy Martin TN wrote:
Are the rails on the rims, welded like factory or welded inside of rim and edge of rails towards wheel center? Tracy |
Not sure I understand the question.......but here is an enlarged photo of a couple rims with rails......perhaps you can tell from this? These come with 4 rails.....one drilled at an angle for AC stops, the other drilled straight across for Massey stops.
BTW, I'd like to compare them to the original rims, but those are no longer around. I guess someone saw them as an opportunity to score a bargain and without my knowledge or consent, dropped by the shop......informed the guys they were there for the rims......paid $75 for the pair and left with them.
I don't know if $75 for the pair was a fair price or not.....doesn't matter......point was they did it without my knowledge or consent. I don't mind guys being frugal and scrounging around for used stuff they can take and make work......admire the trait in fact, but only when done with with permission. Done the way it was left a bad taste in my mouth.
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BrianC
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Posted: 25 Apr 2019 at 8:03am |
Did you ever figure out how the rice drawbar mounted up?
Converting back to snap coupler, did that involve a new hydraulic position valve? You have the Traction Booster feature working?
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Sugarmaker
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Posted: 25 Apr 2019 at 8:15am |
The rim selection looks good. And $275 per rim is a good value. I have fixed most of mine and avoided some cost at the present time. But new rims should be good fo another 60 pears, Thats what about $10 per year!:) Tracy, Not sure of your question but I found two types of welds on these spin out rims. Some with a bead of weld next to the rails, and some which were resistance welded through the rim and melted into the rail. The latter is harder to repair if you have to remove some of the rim under the resistance welded rail. Welds on the first type can be cut and rewelded. In the above picture these look to have several long fillet weld beads next to the rails.
Modirt the tires sound more than at my shop. I priced Firestones for the WD 13.9-28 and they were about $1000 for the pair with tubes. Maybe not same ones you spec ed? Regards, Chris
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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modirt
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Posted: 25 Apr 2019 at 10:00am |
BrianC wrote:
Did you ever figure out how the rice drawbar mounted up?
Converting back to snap coupler, did that involve a new hydraulic position valve? You have the Traction Booster feature working?
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Places that sell this Cross drawbar list it under a parts number as a replacement for the HD drawbar for both the D15 Rice hitch AND a HD hitch for the D17. That is the drawbar itself. Never have figured out where or what the vertical straps were to fasten to. On this D15, there isn't anything there. It may be possible there is something else shown on a different section of the parts book. Perhaps a mod or different option for the top link bracket?
But as for snap coupler drawbars that will work with this Cross after market conversion, I think a lot of them would work. WD, probably WD45 and D17 drawbars should work. Folks that sell the drawbar I bought list it for a number of different tractors, including the D17 (early series), D14, D15, etc.
We put all the SC stuff back on and hooked it to the traction boost and it seems to be working normally.....lift arms go up and down as they are supposed to. You have to have that linkage hooked up or the traction boost will send the hydraulic lift into panic mode to get the arms lifted.....and it will just sit there pounding away.
This setup does allow continued use of the traction boost just as the factory 3 point does, except it does it through the SC linkage. Front pins for the 3 point arms mounted to this "cross" piece that is bolted to the drawbar in front of the drawbar hanger....
If you can find all the rest off a SC parts tractor, the "cross" on the left may be the only part you would have to buy to make this conversion.
Edited by modirt - 25 Apr 2019 at 10:03am
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615partsneeded
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Posted: 17 Jun 2019 at 4:28am |
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Hello Joe, I just purchased a 615 industrial, loader with backhoe, I'm interested in any parts you might have or possibly the complete machine, thanks
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