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SnoJetter 
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Joined: 19 Oct 2010
Location: Alexandria, MN
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 Topic: Allis B Steering Gear Rebuild
Posted: 22 Dec 2011 at 9:36am |
Hi folks - I've got an Allis B with the Gemmer steering gear. I decided to rebuild the gearbox after I discovered that it wouldn't hold lubricant any longer. After removing it from the tractor, I found out why - the expansion plug on the end of the casting had disappeared. Anyway, I've got a problem. I can't figure out how to remove the shaft and worm gear to get at the bearings and seals. My IT manual states that disassembly is "readily apparent." Well, yeah it is apparent that the worm gear needs to come out, but either I need a puller of some sort or it's supposed to just slide right out but has become frozen. Before I do something dumb and break the thing, can anyone tell me what I need to do to get his thing apart. I've attached a few pictures to show you where I am in the process. The first picture shows the casting with the mounting plate and sector & spline shaft removed. The second picture shows a view inside the casting with the worm gear. The third picture is an end view where all the oil escapes from. And the final picture shows where I presume the worm gear come out...but I can't figure out if that "ring" on the end is frozen or is pressed in.
Thanks for the help!
Kyle Sands <>< Alexandria, MN
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KenBWisc
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Joined: 15 Sep 2009
Location: Fall Creek, WI
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Posted: 22 Dec 2011 at 9:53am |
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Well, ti's been a few years since I did my Gemmer but, I don't remember this step to be a challenge. Maybe it was because mine was so worn. I'm wondering if you've backed out the worm/sector gears adjustment screw? If not this may be what is holding you back. Once you get it out and replace the seal, take a good look at the wear on the worm. Because replacement parts are not avaialble you may need to build up the steel with bronze and file it down if there is a lot of slop in the steering. Otherwise, much of the slop can be taken up once back together and mounted to the tractor with the adjustment screw mentioned above. It is this step that challenged me the most. As I recall the instructions say to do this with the front wheels off the ground then test fro binding with wheels on the ground. You may do this several times until you're happy. I was able to reduce the slop in my steering wheel to a 1/4 turn or slightly less.
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'34 WC #629, '49 G, '49 B, '49 WD, '62 D-19, '38 All Crop 60 and still hunting!
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CTuckerNWIL
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Location: NW Illinois
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Posted: 22 Dec 2011 at 10:10am |
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Looks like there is a bearing race that has to pull out of the box along with the bearing on the shaft. It might be stuck a little from crud and age.
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Dick L
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Location: Edon Ohio
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Posted: 22 Dec 2011 at 10:40am |
In your bottom picture you have it started out. Just pull it the rest of the way out. Might help to clean it up before you go much farther. That is justme though. These pictures might help.
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cmsmoke
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Location: Johnstown, Pa
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Posted: 22 Dec 2011 at 10:50am |
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It looks like rust is holding the bearing race. Soak it with alot of penatrant...wiggle it around...possibly some heat. It will come out eventually. Be patient.
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SnoJetter
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Location: Alexandria, MN
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Posted: 23 Dec 2011 at 8:53am |
OK, guys. This sounds like good news to me: no special tools required for the job. The poor tractor has been sitting outside for years and has only been stored indoors for the past couple of seasons, so it would be no surprise to find a few things stuck here and there. I do have some more questions:
KenBWisc: I haven't loosened or removed the sector adjusting screw, but if my memory serves correctly (I am away from the shop now visiting the folks for Christmas) that scew is clear of the worm gear and has no influence on the shaft, gear, or bearings. Are there any other set-screws or bolts that I might be missing that are hidden by all the grease and grime?
Dick L: Thanks for the great picture. Are all those necessary bearings, bushing, seals, etc. available as a rebuil kit or did you just purchase them separately? I haven't yet investigated what parts I actually need to replace or where I'm going to find them all. Also, the "expansion plug" that is currently AWOL on my gearbox, is that a specialty part or is there a modern equivalent to it?
Is the worm gear a permanent part of the steering shaft? One issue with this tractor is that the threads/nut by the steering wheel have been sheered off. So I was considering replacing the whole shaft as well. It's all pretty much rusted on, so it's not like I have to worry about the steering wheel coming off while in use. But it makes disassembly more cumbersome because the steering wheel, tube, and tool box sheet metal are always still a part of the whole assembly - I can't remove them.
I guess what I'll do is soak and clean this thing and see what comes loose after giving it some time. The rest of the tractor is sitting up at the family cabin and I won't be back up there before spring, so I have until June before I need to get this project done.
Thanks much!
Kyle Sands <>< Alexandria, MN
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SnoJetter
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Posted: 30 Dec 2011 at 9:40am |
Hi All - just an update that I managed to get the worm/shaft/bearings pulled out of the steering gear box. After learning that there wasn't anything in there holding the parts except for maybe some rust and a slight press fit, I grabbed the puller and everyting slid out easily this time. Now I've got the greasy parts soaking to get them cleaned up.
What I need now is some part numbers for the bearings, seals, and gaskets (or modern equivalents). You guys who have rebuilt these in the past, where do you find your parts and what do you use?
One item in particular: I found pieces of a cork gasket that disintigrated. It was between the gearbox and the plate casting that mounts the stearing gear to the tractor itself. Is this gasket still available or do I need to cut my own?
Thanks,
Kyle Sands <>< Alexandria, MN
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GregLawlerMinn
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Posted: 30 Dec 2011 at 10:03am |
Kyle Have only rehabbed the Ross gearbox. The seals were available from AGCO, broke up some sealed ball bearings (6205) for the balls, and made my own side plate gaskets from sheet stock. Discovered on almost all that the lower race was more pitted than the upper race (water in the gear box?...seems to have been common to install a zerk and squirt grease into the box instead of using 80 or 140 lube); when I reassembled the box, I reversed the races. Looking at Dick L's photo, it appears that the Gemmer bearings are contained in the race (not loose balls like the Ross gearbox); perhaps the local auto supply, or bearing supply, could match up the bearings and/or seals for your gear box. Below is a link to the AGCO Online parts books. Sign in as a guest and look up B under AGCO Allis to see the parts breakdowns for the B tractor:
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What this country needs is more unemployed politicians-and lawyers.
Currently have: 1 D14 and a D15S2.
With new owners: 2Bs,9CAs,1WD,2 D12s,5D14s,3D15S2s, 2D17SIVs,D17D,1D19D;1 Unstyled WC
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DSMhoneyyard&farm
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Posted: 04 Mar 2024 at 1:45am |
I am working on a Gemmer steering box for a B. How did you get the worm gear out?
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 04 Mar 2024 at 8:28am |
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your bearing is stuck in the bore.. PUll harder or the shaft, or lock the shaft in the vise and tap the CASE off.... The side cover and cross shaft should already be off ?
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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DSMhoneyyard&farm
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Posted: 17 Mar 2024 at 4:09pm |
Thanks, I got it apart. In taking it apart, I found that the gear oil had at some point had gotten water in it. It had turned into a grayish/brown goo. I have all that cleaned out now.
Now onto the repairs. the mounting tabs have broke off. I am welding them back on. The oval adjustment hole for the eccentric rivet has a chunk from the side is missing. I have gotten some steel to fill the gap.
The side cover gasket was missing, I have an O-ring that may fit. The lock ring for the upper adjusting sleeve is also missing. I am attempting to make one.
The side cover looks like someone had used clear silicone to try to seal the side cover. I don't think it worked.
I will post some pictures later to night.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 17 Mar 2024 at 5:25pm |
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OUCH !!! sounds like a REBUILD is definitely in order !
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Wispitfiremike
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Posted: 17 Mar 2024 at 11:31pm |
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I remember calling Sandy Lake for most oi those parts, they have part numbers and an exploded view in the manual.
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DSMhoneyyard&farm
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Posted: 18 Mar 2024 at 8:10pm |
Ok I have the pics on my laptop now.
here is the side cover before working on it. 
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 18 Mar 2024 at 8:25pm |
wonder how they got broke ? tractor rolled over ?
bevel good and preheat 250 degrees with torch or propane/torch ...also burns off any oil residue . you should be OK.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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DSMhoneyyard&farm
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Posted: 18 Mar 2024 at 8:32pm |
well, I did not mean for it to be that big.  I don't know how to make it smaller with the programs I have.
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DSMhoneyyard&farm
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Posted: 18 Mar 2024 at 8:34pm |
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Here is a picture of the inside after repair.
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DSMhoneyyard&farm
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Posted: 18 Mar 2024 at 8:36pm |
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DSMhoneyyard&farm
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Posted: 18 Mar 2024 at 8:38pm |
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DSMhoneyyard&farm
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Posted: 18 Mar 2024 at 8:41pm |
Does anyone have a good image of what the hole for the eccentric rivet should be shaped like?
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Jim2
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Posted: 22 Mar 2024 at 9:18am |
Nice work!
Can't help with pics, though--running the Ross box on my B.
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