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~1920 18-30 Allis Chalmers

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Jacob (WI,ND) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jacob (WI,ND) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: ~1920 18-30 Allis Chalmers
    Posted: 17 Mar 2019 at 2:23pm
Ok, story time.
Probably going to get long winded, might wanna grab some coffee, or popcorn. 


So most of you know I'm into Allis 20-35's. July of 2015 I got my first shortfender, the '27 I have been working on and will get going this spring. In the course of working on that one and parts hunting and networking with others I acquired two longfender 20-35's from Phil up in Canada. Then I found the two 20-35's near Minot, ND and hauled them home. You can say things started to snowball from there, LOL! so I got another '27 from SD. Anyway.....

But the point of this thread is that I got a lead from Phil about some longfender front wheels that were in Denver, CO. I got in contact with the guy, which ended up being a great guy that I still keep in contact with. Turns out he had a carcass of a 20-35 with the front wheels on it that I could buy, but he wanted to get rid of the whole thing. OK fair enough, if they were indeed longfender front wheels, I'd happily buy the entire carcass to get the wheels. They are pretty scarse!

I had him get me some pics to make sure we were on the same page as to what these wheels are. Many people don't know the difference between the longfender vs shortfender parts. Turns out it was the carcass of a longfender, but the front wheels had been changed to shortfender wheels. darn it. I was bummed but told him I was still interested in the tractor as I could use it for parts for my other longfenders. He was in no real hurry to move the tractor, so we made a gentleman agreement that I would buy it, but I couldn't promise when I'd get a chance to actually go and get it from Denver. Sounds good.

Keep in mind this all was in the summer of 2016.

I kept in contact with him, but basically jump ahead to the summer of 2018. It's been two years. I don't like to stretch things out that long. I figured I had better get it. Dad was not really interested in going to Denver just to get a tractor, he was busy with work. So I got together with my buddy Kyle and we scheduled a road trip.

I'll spare you ALL the boring details, but along the way we stopped near Lincoln Nebraska to visit an Allis Chalmers collector. That was sure fun, quite the collection too! It's not my place to talk about what he all has, but I'll say he has a lot of the early AC stuff that Kyle and I are into. Very nice guy!

So we made our way to Denver, and got the tractor loaded up without much hassle. They were gracious enough to even feed us lunch and even a fresh baked peach cobbler hot out of the oven with ice cream for dessert! Nearly had to roll us out to the truck after our nice long visit. Again, you couldn't ask for nicer people. It has been said before, but the tractor hobby really does have some of the nicest people around. 

We pretty much drove straight back to New Richmond, WI (near Minneapolis) were my sister lives, and Kyle headed back home to Green Bay, and I went up to Ashland, WI. Then back to Kenmare, ND for me. It was a ton of road time, but loads of fun.

Got to see part of the country that I had never been to before. I had never seen a mountain before. Still hardly did, but could just make out the base of the Rocky's in the distance when we were in Denver. 

And this trip was immediately after a trip south in WI to pick up another tractor. More about that later in it's own thread.


Ok, so you may be wondering why I have been talking about 20-35's if this thread is titled 18-30? As Paul Harvey used to say, "now, the *rest* of the story..."

When I got it home and really started to look this thing over and study it's details, I began to wonder what this carcass really was. For the record, there is NO serial number tag with this tractor. There is also NO engine number tag on the block, as it has been removed. So I can not 100% prove what I am about to lay out, but I am pretty sure. If anyone has info that can prove/disprove I'd love to hear!

I believe this is about a 1920 18-30. Reasons being:

-The casting number on the engine block ends with -8 Comparing this to other tractors with known serial number tags puts it at about 1920.

-The cover on the bottom of the oil pan has the tapered to the side with the plug on the side shape. This was used on the later 18-30's (earlier 18-30's have a different oil pan with TWO bottom covers) but I believe was changed to the flat bottom cover with the drain plug in the bottom by the time the 20-35 longfenders came about. I haven't found any specific serial number brakes in the parts manuals to confirm exactly when this was changed.

-The valve lifter access covers are the early style. Again, don't have specific number breaks, but this leads me to believe this is earlier than a 20-35 LF.

-The transmission cover is the heavy cast iron one. Early tractors used this, and at some point this was changed to stamped steel by the 20-35 LF. Again, not sure exactly when the switch was made, but I don't think the 18-30's ever had the stamped cover?

-The engine block has a couple other small differences besides the -8 casting number. I suppose they go along with the casting number suffix, as that was why they changed the suffix, each different variation to casting update got a new number. So that does NOT indicate year, but rather casting changes. But a general year can be assumed by comparing to other tractors like I mentioned earlier.
The web gusset at the rear of the block is rounded, where later it becomes straight with a hole in it. There are also no bosses at the rear of the block for future mounting points for the air washer. You can actually track the suffix changes from no mounting bosses, to bosses but not machined or used (but they must have been planning ahead). Finally to bosses machined and tapped to mount the air washers behind the engine by '26 LF.
And there are some other small differences in oil line ports, etc....

-The early tractors also used several variations of rear hubs through the years. The early ones (like this tractor has) have machined notched spots with tapped holes to mount extension rims to the center hub (as different kinds of extension rims were available, but I won't go down that rabbit hole today). Later (I believe by the time 20-35 LF came around) they still had the casting bosses on the hubs, but they quit machining and drilling and taping them. Most likely because they had changed extension rim styles and no longer needed this center mounting point. My '25 20-35 LF has these hubs. Then they changed the hubs again by '26 to not have the cast bosses at all. My '26 is smooth like this. So this tractor having the machined and tapped holes makes it early, how early I can't prove because again I have not found any serial number breaks on this part.



I think I will wrap this up for now. Typed too much and I'd hate to see the computer to go goofy now and loose it all. Might add some more later.

Please feel free to add or criticize if you feel I am wrong with any of my theories.

Here is a link to my Google Photos album with all the photos of this tractor:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/13DJTbaLZyXRxhbz5



Edited by Jacob (WI,ND) - 17 Mar 2019 at 2:25pm
Jacob Swanson
1920 6-12; 1925,1926 20-35 longfenders; 1925,1926 15-25's; 1927,1929 20-35 shortfenders; C; B's; IB; WC's; WD; WD45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jacob (WI,ND) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2019 at 2:26pm
So I should add what my plans are with this tractor. Well, at this point it is just going to be parked in the "maybe someday project" row. All I have for 18-30 parts is what is pictured in this album. So a LOT of the important pieces are missing. And finding them would be very hard if not impossible. Sure many of the smaller things could be reproduced and fabricated from other tractors as a reference. But many of the things would be very hard to reproduce. Heads for example, as they are different from 20-35 LF heads (and those are hard enough to find as it is). The spark plugs are straight, as opposed to angled. 

And even if a guy was ambitious (crazy) enough to want to bring this one back, you still would not even have the serial number to go along with it. Not that that is the end of the world, but it is kinda a bummer.

But on the other hand, 18-30's are pretty scarse. I don't know the official count of how many are left, but I'd guess under 2 dozen? So maybe it would be worth the effort to bring it back? 
What say you?

If anyone has 18-30 parts (or 20-35 LF parts for that matter), I'd be interested.

For now I have enough other projects to keep me busy. Who knows what the future may bring.
Jacob Swanson
1920 6-12; 1925,1926 20-35 longfenders; 1925,1926 15-25's; 1927,1929 20-35 shortfenders; C; B's; IB; WC's; WD; WD45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jacob (WI,ND) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2019 at 5:46pm
To follow up with a bit more history of this tractor that I got with it. The guy I bought it from got it from the daughter of an old guy that owned it before him. So most likely it was an original family tractor. It was from Holyrood, Kansas, and farmed and was from Ellsworth County in Kansas. Which is about the smack dab middle of Kansas. It is neat to know where the tractors originally came from I think.

Jacob Swanson
1920 6-12; 1925,1926 20-35 longfenders; 1925,1926 15-25's; 1927,1929 20-35 shortfenders; C; B's; IB; WC's; WD; WD45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Michael V (NM) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2019 at 10:30pm
interesting... I have always wanted a green one... then I decided I'd rather have the latest 'E' on rubber that I could find... you know,,, just before the 'A'..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NEVER green Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 2019 at 9:45am

WOW, don't know anything about 18-30s but would be very cool you discovered one after you got it home!! Whats the number of longfenders out there?
2-8050 1-7080 6080 D-19 modelE & A 7040   R50       
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jacob (WI,ND) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 2019 at 7:53pm
Michael, yeah, those 25-40's sure are sweet!   Someday I'd like to have one of them in the collection.

Tom, how many longfenders are out there is really just an educated guess.  The best list I've seen put together is on David Parfitt's site:

  It includes the ones on the owners registry from this site, as well as more.  But I'm sure this is not all of the tractors out there.   One must be careful when using the term "Longfender".  It can mean different things to different people.  Keep in mind too, the term longfender was never used by Allis for an actual model designation or anything.  It is simply a term collectors apply to conversation and discussions to differentiate between what tractors they are referring to.  It is generally accepted (and how I typically use the term longfender) to say longfender when referring to the early 20-35's  1926 and before, because they have long fenders.  Where 1927 and after 20-35's they shortened the fenders, hence the slang "shortfender".  Some people also use longfender as a blanket term to cover 15-25 L's and 18-30's.  I usually refer to those as L's and 18-30's for clarity.  

ANywayyyyyy........


There are about 25 longfender 20-35's on this list, so I'd feel safe saying there are probably less than 50 left in the world?

There are about a dozen 18-30's on the list, and same story, I'm sure there are more out there not on this list.  But I'd venture to say there are less 18-30's than 20-35 LF.  So if I had to throw a number out maybe 25 18-30's left in the world?

15-25 L's there are about 14 on the list, but I've heard that there are about 30-some of them left.

6-12's I've heard the same number, there are about 30-some know.


So however you slice it, any of these are fairly rare tractors.
Jacob Swanson
1920 6-12; 1925,1926 20-35 longfenders; 1925,1926 15-25's; 1927,1929 20-35 shortfenders; C; B's; IB; WC's; WD; WD45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jacob (WI,ND) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jul 2020 at 10:11pm
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Jacob Swanson
1920 6-12; 1925,1926 20-35 longfenders; 1925,1926 15-25's; 1927,1929 20-35 shortfenders; C; B's; IB; WC's; WD; WD45
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